Hello~ I've been looking through Starfire's NPC Additions 1.11, and I noticed something interesting. A lot of the leveled lists that are created have no chance of showing up on the NPCs.
I started from the bottom of the list and worked my way up, but seeing as there were so many I stopped so I could ask this in the forums because it might be that way for a reason.
Below is a list of the leveled lists I noticed with no chance. Some are rightfully so (as they have nothing in the list) but most seem like they should have a chance...


Does anyone know why this is so? I find it a bit fishy, but there must be a reason behind it seeing as there is so many and I didn't even go through most of the lists....

EDIT: I've noticed this trend in several other mods as well. I guess it's just one of those modding rules I don't understand, because it's unlikely several different mods would have this same issue...

Seems pretty pointless to me to create leveled lists that never add anything to the game.

Greetings, Spiffyman

I've noticed the same things, too.

Although I do not use Starfire's NPC Additions myself, and cannot, probably, give you a definitive answer, I have formed some opinions based on what I have seen:

1) Leveled List "glitches" seldom generate error messages, unless they are actually applied in the Game World (so, "extra" leveled doo-hickeys almost never get noticed, except, as you have, when somebody goes looking for them in the Construction Set);

2) Some of these may be related to the Mod Author using content from other mods. The ReadMe should indicate whether, for example, running NOM with the mod is "Required" or "Recommended" and thus, these "extras" only come into play when that other mod is loaded.

3) However, most of these are, probably, things the Mod Author was working with during development of the mod, apparently rejected, and failed to "clean out" before releasing the mod to the unsuspecting public. Since I, as you, have also noticed this as a "trend" in more than one mod, it appears to me that ALL persons who "mod for the public" should be aware, and be more careful ...

However, you should also look at any scripts that are included in the mod, to see if some of these Leveled List things are only activated/attached/placed when something else occurs.

Good find, good question.

DARoot

Curious... Perhaps I should add something in SM to detect that and modify it to have a chance or just delete the 0% to gets?

Most likely they were added during testing, changed lists and forgot about them... Or perhaps too lazy, or something... Hmmm....

Oh, Yeah, I forgot --

Sometimes leveled lists (particularly items) are placed in OTHER leveled thingies.
Need to look at that, too.

Anyway, just because something has a "0" in the Object page for usage doesn't necessarily mean it isn't being used somewhere in the entire mod...

DARoot

I checked out SF's scripts and none of them touch the leveled lists. I also checked the NPCs, and they have all the leveled lists pertaining to them (traders have all the SF_travelingtrader_xxx) even though many of those have a 0 chance to show up.
You are probably right about the leveled lists that don't have anything in them: they are probably left over from developing the mod but never getting to the point of using these lists yet...

As for the ones that should, the main culprits seem to be the SF_xxx_shirts/pants, and yet no one complains about these guys being naked, so I'm left thinking that maybe a "0" chance leveled list in someone's inventory guarantees they gain those items in that leveled list...

To support that idea, a mod that builds on SF, http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=mods.List uses leveled lists to add skirts to higher class ladies. These leveled lists are also 0, so I can only assume this means they WILL gain these items because no one complains that these ladies don't get the skirts...

You are talking about the box that has "Chance None" next to it, correct? That refers to the chance of nothing from the leveled list being used. A 0 means there's no chance of no item being used, also known as a 100% chance of an item from the list being used.

haha... I guess you learn something new everyday. Well, that would explain a lot, though I find it counterintuitive to have it that way. Thank you for solving this mystery for me.
Those blank leveled lists are definitely leftovers from development then, because this would mean they were set to always show up even though they are useless as they are now.

Much appreciated Feneroe!

Hmm... So there's leveled list entries but they have nothing in them? That's something SM can be told to look for and remove. Be interesting to do... But only if you think it's worth adding. If so, and anyone else finds similar entries that are basically useless let me know and I'll see what I can do for the next release or two.

At least I know now the none% at 0 is a good thing.

so, what would happen if you add something to them? (i know nothing about this stuff btw)

If you added something, they wouldn't be useless... If you deleted them, then nothing changes much...

The actual entry for leveled lists for items and creatures is the paired INAM, INTV and CNAM, INTV. If those are all missing in an entry then it is basically worthless. Like adding a DIAL entry but not having any INFO's to go with it.