You can go everywhere and do everything!

Post » Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:45 am

Topics like this puzzle me endlessly.

I can't think of anything more boring or more disappointing than finding out I can just levitate over an entire mountain range that I'm sure people spent days and days working on and making look good. I hated levitation in Morrowind. It was annoying when I had to use it and I felt like a cheater any other time, as it was incredibly easy to exploit enemy AI with it. And honestly, none of the secrets I ever found in Morrowind by levitating were that special anyway, and could just as easily have had an Oblivion-like method of concealing them that would have worked just as well if not better.


I would be keeping my feet firmly planted on the ground and would spend hours admiring the world the devs created. But the option would be nice for those that wanted it.
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Tessa Mullins
 
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Post » Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:14 am

No, no, no. On the contrary. We get immersed when we can actually GO there when we see it, and find out the means of how ourselves - either levitation, acrobatics, or even climbing if they were generous enough to add it. To make the world feel real, you should be able to do these things. Else it feels untouchable. There are tons and tons of games that restrict your movement, but this is Elder Scrolls, and I want to roam free.

Screens like http://cms.elderscrolls.com/sites/default/files/tes/screenshots/CompositeMountain_wLegal.jpg really worry me, how we are supposed to walk on these ridges without some sort of acrobatics. :sadvaultboy:

What's wrong with walking? Or running? Or riding a horse? To make the world feel real, you need to have the option to fly? They've already said if we see it, we can go there. I also don't recall any information that we're incapable of jumping, just that the skill of Acrobatics is gone. To me, it sounds more fun to know that if I want to go climb that mountain off in the distance, I have to go on an adventure to get there and then scale it myself. I'd feel rewarded once reaching the top, or at least the highest point that I can get to. It would cheapen the entire experience knowing I could have just levitated up to the top, even worse if I actually chose to do that.
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Michael Korkia
 
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Post » Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:35 am

They've already said if we see it, we can go there.


I seem to remember the first fable making promises very similar.

Not that I am saying Bethesda are liers like Lionhead but it makes you think.
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Nikki Lawrence
 
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Post » Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:58 pm

What's wrong with walking? Or running? Or riding a horse? To make the world feel real, you need to have the option to fly? They've already said if we see it, we can go there. I also don't recall any information that we're incapable of jumping, just that the skill of Acrobatics is gone. To me, it sounds more fun to know that if I want to go climb that mountain off in the distance, I have to go on an adventure to get there and then scale it myself. I'd feel rewarded once reaching the top, or at least the highest point that I can get to. It would cheapen the entire experience knowing I could have just levitated up to the top, even worse if I actually chose to do that.


Yes. I would like to fly.

I also contest levitation was ever overpowered.
In Morrowind it was a high level spell with a medium-high magicka cost. At low speeds it was nearly useless.
It may be true that some enemies were unable to handle it, but hey, its 2011 now, programming has improved.
Aside from that Morrowind already had NPC's that dealt with levitation just fine by shooting you out of the sky.

I would like levitation because it would make the world 3d, is an invitation to interesting level design and it makes the world truly free-roam,
As other posters in this thread, there is nothing I detest more than being forced down a pre-made path every single time I go to a particular location.
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Susan Elizabeth
 
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Post » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:26 pm

What's wrong with walking? Or running? Or riding a horse? To make the world feel real, you need to have the option to fly? They've already said if we see it, we can go there. I also don't recall any information that we're incapable of jumping, just that the skill of Acrobatics is gone. To me, it sounds more fun to know that if I want to go climb that mountain off in the distance, I have to go on an adventure to get there and then scale it myself. I'd feel rewarded once reaching the top, or at least the highest point that I can get to. It would cheapen the entire experience knowing I could have just levitated up to the top, even worse if I actually chose to do that.

Levitation should be a challenge to achieve and maintain for a long time, certainly. It could also be restricted to a certain height depending on your skill, so you can't levitate everywhere right away. A sense of progression is important for any skill, and so it should be for travel.
Although jumping is still in the game, there needs to be a difference between good jumping characters and bad ones, so you actually have to make a choice if you want to get somewhere - as you said, it would cheapen the entire experience otherwise.
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Claudia Cook
 
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Post » Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:18 pm

They took levitation out because it meant that they're able to create more interesting quests, or something like that. It's answered in the Q&A, but they have a pretty valid reason.

It's probably been said, as I can't be bothered to go through every opst, but the "reason" is that they're using celled cities. I think that's a ridiculous reason. Perhaps, I could understand, if only for the xbox, which is the only one that can't handle it, but no. Everyone has to suffer to the faults of one platform. I don't see why they can't even just use a "bubble door". A large invisible bubble around each city that records the point of which the PC/NPC/Creature impacts, and transfers them into the cell in accordance with thier positioning on the original gameworld.

I make it sound more complicated than what it is, all the console needs to do is record an x, y and z coordinate, and place them in that exact same location in the city cell. The overworld is formed of various cells, so it is more than possible.

Or even stop pushing the game further than it can go. It always annoys me how companies will create games beyond what we actually need, and sacrifice gameplay/small loading times/content.
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Gisela Amaya
 
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Post » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:21 am



As far as level design, again, what part of optional, mage only power, are you missing? The dungeons you describe would work fine for any other character type, and for the mage, it would also be fine, we cast the spell for a reason, don't you think?

It's not like, whoops, I cast this spell, now the dungeon is ruined! It's more like, this dungeon svcks, I'm going to cast my spell to get over there quicker, etc,. Honestly, I don't care what the devs wanted, it was their own fault for not listening, I complained as soon as I found it was missing from Oblivion, did they think I would change my mind?


No, but everyone else is probably tired of you barking at a wall.

Pointless complaints are pointless. They've made a decision about the game. Complaining about something you cannot change is called "whining"
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Veronica Flores
 
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Post » Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:36 pm


It's more like, this dungeon svcks, I'm going to cast my spell to get over there quicker,



That is exactly why they took it out.
And don't give me that "player freedom" BS. If I spent years making a game, I wouldn't want people to exploit their way through it.
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KiiSsez jdgaf Benzler
 
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Post » Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:52 pm

That is exactly why they took it out.
And don't give me that "player freedom" BS. If I spent years making a game, I wouldn't want people to exploit their way through it.


What?
This game is not about killing all bad guys untill you get to the boss, that is Halo.
Why shouldnt avoiding enemies or content that is unappealing be a viable gameplay option?
This game is supposed to be about doing what you want and being what you want.

The very idea that all things in the game must be done, otherwise it would somehow be a 'waste of valuable development time' is the biggest crock I have heard in a long time.
And its not an exploit.
Its an intended game mechanic. (At least it was in Morrowind and Daggerfall)
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elliot mudd
 
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Post » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:40 pm

My guess is athletics/acrobatics were removed because, without major skills to determine what levels you up, you would level up quickly with skills that wont help you in combat. Effectively forcing you into a bad build by Oblivion's standard. So, that sounds good to me. (Of course, this is presuming you are in favor of determining your class as you go, opposed to when you start. I personally am).

Maybe perks can let you change jump/sprint speeds? Who knows, but the option has not been removed because the core mechanics are still there.

As far as generally reducing our freedom, I do not think that is the case. This is because I think perks give you (or can give you) massive customization over the game play, which I hold as more important than most other things.
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Catharine Krupinski
 
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Post » Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:22 am

"Feature" removal has been pretty consistent from generation to generation. In Arena we had the passwall spell. Yes, we could literally remove walls to get to different parts of dungeon if you had magic enough to use it.

Some of the things that are removed because they can be 'abused' is pretty limiting. You should be able to get REALLY rich by sneaking in and stealing from nobles. Thats the whole point. The difference is they should make the guards able to deal with you so that you have almost no chance of pulling it off at low levels. Thats kind of the whole issue with level-scaling chests and NPCs. There is a certain thrill about sneaking through areas where it would mean almost certain death if you were caught. People that like stealthy characters generally like that feeling. When everything is level-scaled, and you are caught, then its a quick little combat scenario, where you win and then continue on sneaking around. Not quite the same fun.
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Alberto Aguilera
 
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Post » Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:43 am

The only thing when you give the player this kind of ability is that literally everything in the game has to be designed with it in mind. It takes a lot of effort as everything has to be tested from a levitation perspective and it would lead to a lot of places where things would have to be cut or changed just to keep levitation possible.


This right here.

Obviously, the developers didn't feel that levitation was important enough to have to cut other things they felt more important to the game. They have a vision for this game, which includes very essential features in order to support that feature. Levitation jeopardizes the things they feel are essential to that vision. Thus, levitation has to go. Really though, did its exclusion destroy Oblivion's appeal? No, it didn't. Gamespot still called it the best RPG to date when it came out. Get over it. Its not coming back.
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Theodore Walling
 
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Post » Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:03 am

What?
This game is not about killing all bad guys untill you get to the boss, that is Halo.
Why shouldnt avoiding enemies or content that is unappealing be a viable gameplay option?
This game is supposed to be about doing what you want and being what you want.

The very idea that all things in the game must be done, otherwise it would somehow be a 'waste of valuable development time' is the biggest crock I have heard in a long time.
And its not an exploit.
Its an intended game mechanic. (At least it was in Morrowind and Daggerfall)


Not about killing bad guys? You level up your combat skills how?
The game is still be who you want, do what you want. But say you're following a path up a mountain to get to the top, along the path somewhere there is an encounter that spawns the enemy on top of it, but you say "I don't feel like walking" so you levitate up to the top, skipping that encounter and not spawning that enemy, and you can't figure it out.

Saying that things in the game have to be done isn't a crock at all. They do spend valuable development time to make these things interesting, they don't want you to skip it because you're lazy or impatient.
And I don't see how it isn't an exploit. To exploit is to take advantage of, and thats what you are doing, taking advantage of levitation so you don't have to work for something.
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Crystal Clear
 
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Post » Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:00 am

If your worrried that levitation ruins the game expierence and just negates the enjoyment of a dungeon,then riddle me this:
Which game had more interesting,fun and overall more enjoyable dungeons:Morrowind or Oblivion?
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Cameron Garrod
 
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Post » Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:32 pm

Morrowind probably but it's been years since I played MW... but Morrowind's dungeon's would have been interesting even without levitation simply because the game world was better crafted. That still doesn't mean that you couldn't abuse levitation...

I think the reason they offered regarding levitation removal makes sense... for me at least. If it restricts their ability to make interesting quests then I think the removal isn't such a bad thing.
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OTTO
 
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Post » Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:15 am

Well, if you really find an encounter or a dungeon SO unappealing that you'd rather levitate past it, then why bother doing it? You could just turn around and leave.
Or, use one of the many mods that adds levitation. At this point in development, I find it extremely hard to believe that complaining en masse will solve anything. They won't change the game for you.
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Tammie Flint
 
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Post » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:15 pm

Morrowind probably but it's been years since I played MW... but Morrowind's dungeon's would have been interesting even without levitation simply because the game world was better crafted. That still doesn't mean that you couldn't abuse levitation...

I think the reason they offered regarding levitation removal makes sense... for me at least. If it restricts their ability to make interesting quests then I think the removal isn't such a bad thing.


I agree with this 100%.
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carly mcdonough
 
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Post » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:02 pm

Another thing:

This whole argument about "going everywhere and doing everything" doesn't work. Most of the people who like to call themselves long time gamers. If they really were, they would know that while developers make statements like "you can do whatever you want" when referring to their sandbox game, what they are really saying is: "You can do whatever you want within the confines/space of this game in accordance to its unbreakable laws." This is how it is with EVERY SINGLE GAME YOU WILL EVERY PLAY. So stop making too much out of the phrase, "you can go everywhere and do everything". Any experienced gamer should know this. If you despise limitations, you despise games, my friend. Every game has its rules, limited space, and mechanics. These all come together to produce the intended experience that the designers want to convey. They. don't. feel. that. levitation. supports. the. developers. intended. experience. for. the. player. Let it go.
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Lexy Dick
 
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