Good game design requires doors that need a key to be opened?

I highly disagree. Simply because just having a locked door seems pathetic if the door is made out of flimsy wood. In my opinion good game design revolves around how you solve these problems. Here's how I think of it. (Note that the attributes I have listed are examples of how it would work.)

Example:

Whilst pillaging or adventuring in the depths of the unknown, you discover a door whilst sneaking past a couple of enemies. Usually, common game design would have you search for a key, but this is the future! You can open the door any way you please! How would you open this door? Would you pick it open, find the key, use magic, or bash that monstrosity down?! You decide! However, note that different decisions have different outcomes!


The door you come across is a wooden door, an easy foe!

Wooden Doors. Wooden doors are simple doors and are used mainly for rooms.

- You either pick the lock. Requires skill, but allows for a stealthy and unnoticeable entry.
- You can find the key. Requires no skill, allows for a stealthy and unnoticeable entry. (That is of course if the key is not on a person.)
- You can bash the door down, or at least try. Requires strength, you attempt to bash the door down, it's not very stealthy and it's highly noticeable, but it gets the job done.
- Use magic to open the door. Stealthy, unnoticeable and damn cool. Abracadabra-open-sesame!



The door you come across is an Iron door, a tough enemy indeed. But nothing pure brute force can't stop!

Iron Doors. Iron doors are complex doors they are found in jails, palaces, treasure vaults and sometimes inside dungeons.

- You can pick the lock. Requires skill, but allows for a stealthy and unnoticeable entry.
- Find a key. Requires no skill, allows for a stealthy and unnoticeable entry. (That is of course if the key is not on a person.)
- Or try to damage the lock itself. Requires strength, you attempt to break the lock using your weapon. However there is a chance that you fail and the door will not open, skill in blacksmithing (or some other skill) will allow for a more precise break. Note that this is not stealthy and is very noticeable. Expect your foes to be alerted.
- Use magic to open the door. Stealthy, unnoticeable and damn cool. Abracadabra-open-sesame!


That is how I see good game design, allowing different opportunities for game-play rather than having boring old tactics used to get the player to search for a stupid key. However, if the player did search for the key, they would experience more content although there's nothing stopping them from going back.

I would say if the hinges are on the outside, there might also be doors where you can tap the hinges out. (Not really stealthy, not really needing any skills, but it could work depending on where the hinges are.)

In a word, no.

The "sorry, you are not allowed in here" always seemed like a lazy way to restrict areas. I mean, why is that lock unpickable? Is someone on the other side going to relock it whenever you unlock it? Be more creatuive, bethesda.

You could have that as well I suppose. But I guess that is somewhat nit-picking considering that you want the player to have at least some attribute to open to door. Having nothing at all and opening the door without doing anything seems pointless, you may as well not even have a door.

Yes, you should be able to bash doors and chests open. A warrior's first thought before storming a ruin isn't 'Now, hold on, have I got an adequate amount of lockpicks or Skeleton Key in my backpack so I can get all the loot these bandits have locked up tight?'. No, its more 'BWAHH, AXE FEED TIME!!' (well thats if your a babaric orc or nord :flamethrower:, a redguard would utter a more civilised 'Alright lets f*** some sh!t up')

You should be able to smash a chest up, but the cost of opening the lock with force is that, should armour or weapons be inside, they will incur a penalty to their condition, stating that the forced entry has damaged them. Other chest types (dwemer ones) could have a code hinted at while in the room its in or (heres a good one ) a kind of puzzle, similar maybe to that one in the KotN expansion in OB, where you have to place certain items in certain places so you activate the steampunk mechanism which opens the chest. Just a cool idea I came up with just now.

in a world of magic, it makes sense to have an unbreakable locking spell on certain doors, and only the correct key will open it.

i would like to say that i would like the door-breaking option under a warrior skill (if we still had attributes, it could be strength related). breaking a door down would be very hard, consume large chunks of fatigue, and cause damage to your weapons (or armor if you are trying to take it down unarmed). different doors have different durability. (an old wooden door would only take a few hits, but still drain your fatigue, whereas a reinforced wood door would be hard, and need large amounts of fatigue and good weapons). when a door is broken, it takes on a different texture, that makes it looked damaged, and guards, curious passerby's, etc, would come in to investigate. this breaking option should also apply to locked chests.

so, Warriors get an option to unlock without having to use Alteration, Security, or the Skeleton Key (if it is in). this way people can choose the Brute Force, Finesse, or Hand Wave styles of opening something, while still having Unbreakable Locks that require a magical key.

Some attribute to open the door... I guess you could make it a repair type skill, or link it to some skill that involves crafting of sorts. Wasn't the option of finding a key on that list? That doesn't require any skills (assuming it's not on someone).

Yeah pry open locks for warriors would be good, it would make two handers more useful as they wouldn't brake as easy. Balance is in how easy it is to break your weapon doing it even hurting your self to, and the load unmistakable noice of some one smashing there way in.

So yeah I'd like the option when I select a locked door or box:

Pick lock
Or
Pry open

"the door has been magically sealed"
"it can not be open by force or skill alone"
"find the correctly enchanted key"


Note: locked boxes should be able to be smashed open but there is always a chance of destroying/ damaging the condition of items in the box, as well as hurting your self or braking your sword.

There should be several different types of locks and traps that could be applied to different doors and containers.

For instance Dwemers should lock their doors different from their containers, and different from how the Nordic population would lock their doors, and different from Nordic chests and containers, and different from the vault doors, and different from Daedric locks, and different from ancient Nordic lock around Draugr tombs, and so on...

Players that have low security skills should only be able to open simple locks of common doors and containers, but in order to be able to open more advanced locks, they need to advance their security skill, and acquire some new perks.

Some locks might be accompanied with magical traps, so we would need also to acquire some trap disarming perks as well.

The possibility of bashing the locks would depend on the material and power of the weapon, so with lower level weapons you would be able to bash open the simpler locks, but in order to open some more complex types of locks, you would need more exotic types of weapons, and some more advanced types of locks would never open by bashing.

Bashing would quickly degrade weapon sharpness, and might have a chance to destroy potions and other fragile items in the containers, and would make a lot of noise and warn nearby foes.

After bashing open a container, we might find some broken glass, spilled potions, and soaked robes in there.

Yeah. I reckon it would fit under blacksmithing, being able to systematically take the hinges off doors to open a particular door. All I can imagine is the mission impossible theme whilst your character is pulling the hinges off a door >.< You could find the key but the whole idea is having different option to open the door rather than tunnelling the player to follow one specific element, whilst still having reward elements for acquiring certain attributes for example; strength, lock picking skill or blacksmithing. That way you create an option for the player to explore new content such as those elements in order for them to try out new game-play mechanics.


Specifically this version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U_KmbZhfYc

I had the wrong one

This should be able to be overcome with a decent enough Dispel spell in my humble opinion.




I personally don't like this method (Fallout style), because then you have to force your character to level a certain way to reach certain areas. I guess it would be okay if there were other ways around the obstacle, but I'm not in favor of it. (That being said, I usually go steath/security anyway, so it wouldn't overly affect me, but I'm still opposed to it).

I agree in that you shouldn't have to upgrade one particular attribute to gain access into an area. Personally I think as much variety as possible, have methods which do different things. You have an easy option which will get you discovered, one which will save time and is a stealthy approach and one which is cool! That way the player can opening items or doors or anything any way possible. It would also add to the immersion.

There can be safer shortcuts that stealth based characters could take by opening complex locks, and other characters could take the longer and more dangerous way toward the destination.

I see the effect of choices and consequences here.

hell...

yes

Well there should be some doors that can be opened only with key
On the other hand design of such doors should make it clear that you can't bash them either (heavy stone or metal gates or doors that are magically enchanted with tipical shimmering)
It is not only game design, but also logical solution
There are doors IRL that you can't open with lockpicks, crowbar, or even with explosives
So having such key-only doors is nothing strange for me

I voted the first option, but I would like to see bashing locks in this game as well.
The warrior should not have to bother with magic or lockpicks when he's strong enough to bash the lock open!


This. Bashing locks would be perfect for the strong warrior build. Perhaps your skill number in One-handed or Two-handed will decide how long you need to bash/whether you can bash to get the door open?

I think some doors should require specific keys, but not all of them. Many in both Oblivion and Fallout 3 had keys, but could still be opened through lockpicking, or some other method (magic in Oblivion, or hacking or bashing in Fallout).

Good game design requires them. I can easily live with having a door that won't open until a key is found or special event happens. If I could just break through and break the game what would be the point? Remember the 5 minute MQ playthrough for MW? How fun was that?

Not necessarily. By doing that you are potentially forcing people to go a specific characteristic in order to gain a short-cut access, essentially creating one distinct class that everyone would play in order to gain this bonus. This would work if there were other abilities which were given to other characteristics, therefore balancing out the benefits.

The point is to create different opportunities for play. Not everyone finds running around for 5mins trying to find a key to open a door, the aim is to not force the player to do anything. The player should have full control over the situation and be able to interact with specific objects such as doors to create a different play style - whether that is bashing down the door to get into the next area, or looking for a key. You could also have benefits related to finding the key if the situations seems likely that the player would just bash down the door for times sake. Forcing people to wonder around for 5mins isn't good game design, its repetitive and lazy game design.

I honestly think some locks should be able to be bashed open as a way of opening things for warrior types where thieves can pick them and mages can use spells. I can see the point of keeping keys for important passages though. These things don't have to mutually exclude one another. If a door can only be opened by finding a key, that's fair enough, no character types will be put at a disadvantage.

There should be a way to force character to do something before being able to get access to stuff.
Even if it means something like keys