Well I'm American and I DON'T support the Enclave, because they really don't care about "Americans". All they care about is their own Enclave members, and the many Wastelanders who ARE still Americans, they want to kill off. I'm so glad the Enclave doesn't exist.

They're trying to rebuild America, thats good enough for me.

But tell me, is Fallout 3's America even worth rebuilding?

Again, I mean you no offense, but I think you do not understand what it is that the U.S. was founded on. It was founded on the belief that all are equal. You would kill another human simply because they have a mutation just as you do? The only difference between your mutations and theirs is that theirs were caused by exposure to radioactive material. Then again, you could have the same mutations. Radiation is everywhere. The countertops in your kitchen give off radiation and so does the sun. Cancer is a radiation-induced mutation. I think America's founding fathers are rolling in their graves right now. The Enclave have strayed too far from America's values and I do not believe you understand genetics.

So, do you all support the Holocaust?

Now, that's a good point.

They're ghouls


Again, ghouls



I don;t like Autumn, really. He's too hot headed for everyone's sake. Borderlining psychotic. :shrug:



That didn't make sense, since vault dwellers should, even if they were really evil, be used for their pure gens. Also, since they were really acting in their own accord, so we can rule them as rotten apples.



We can't really know if they were innocent, can we? As far as we know, they could have had resisted arrest or something like that.


I clearly remember that one, and they were all ghouls.


All governments have to start (in this case, re-start) from some point, haven't they? It's a sad fact, but force is usually the way to get and hold power. I assure you any current government in the world exists now because they've used force to get and hold power at some point.

To me I find this topic quite intriguing .


I'll state my tart



The Enclave is a morally grey group of Elitist humans who have only the desire to rebuild America the way it was before the Great War


Their means are through genocide, for which it is to bring safety the future generations ALL around the world.


I myself am a Socialist, but I support the Enclave. WHY?

1. I don't support them because they are bad-ass. I support them because they have a realistic goal

2. Their means will benefit the future world. No more gangers/raiders/thief-like wastelanders/murderers/cannibals and so on would be eradicated.

3. Ghouls and Mutants have no rights. They are abominations unto themselves and should perish


And thus, I conclude genocide is a meritable use in the scenario the Enclave is stuck in.

This on so many levels, if the Enclave where just not as friggin insane as they are maybe then I'd label them as good. They sadly kill everything thats not them, but besides I love selling their armour for the caps!

This is so wrong on so many levels I can't even begin to list them.

the gouls are abominations? so they must die? hitler much, they're differnt from you so they must die?

We keep saying this, but they never listen.

I'd love to get a demographic of how old people are in this thread related to what their viewpoint on this is. I'm willing to bet a thousand caps on the genocide-endorsers mostly being in their teens.

hitlor believed that germany and germans were the greatest people alive and the rest didnt diserve to live. the enclave is the same thing, they believe that the members of the enclave are better than those of the wastland and they have no right to live.

as for the ghouls, who are you to dicide who or what is an abomination? killing these ghouls is the equivalant(of this time periode) of going into hospitals and killing people who have cancer, those people that are two people but in one body(wow that sounded terrible), and all the athoer "abominations".

Keep talking about the Nazis and this thread will be locked. Plus Goldwin's Law.

there is nothing wrong with comparing ones beliefs to someone elses in history, no matter who it is. I just looked up goldwins law and i dont think it makes any sense.

I don't recall that people with cancer or that are two in one body (whatever that was supposed to mean -- I guess siamese twins) eventually turn into mindless, aggressive and biologically immortal cannibals. If they did, then going into hospitals and disposing of them wouldn't be such a bad idea after all.

You say that as if it should somehow make murder all right. It begs the question: so what? So what if they're ghouls?


No, we can't. Vice versa, we can't know if they have done anything that warrants death or labour camps, and I hardly think the burden of evidence falls on the accused, but rather on the accuser. Should we automatically assume that because someone was shot by the Enclave, they must have done something bad, because the Enclave is good? That is circular logic, and non-falsifiable.

And even if they had done something, on whose authority does the Enclave dole out sentences?

The Enclave is not the legitimate government, as that government ceased to be 200 years ago. I don't know where you are from, but I surmise that you would not be happy if your country all of a sudden was invaded by external forces, who believed they had a right to govern it, because they had done so before the current state of affairs hundreds of years ago. It would be equivalent of the UK taking over the government of the United States, just because America used to be a British colony. That time has passed, and likewise the U.S. no longer exists in any recognizable form in Fallout. The Enclave has no legitimate right to rule.


Oh, you assure me? I don't know about you, but I live in a democracy, and I would not be so presumptious as you to comment on all current governments in the entire world.

But all these points are moot, and I tire of debating with blind and deaf people; I don't mean you, NT8, necessarily, but the entirety of this thread has made me nauseous, especially those comments that defended genocide in real life. Back when this interminable debate surfaced the last time, there were some Enclave fans that tried to persuade me that the Enclave fan club didn't hold these opinions in real life, and that they merely argued that the Enclave was neutral. I see now that they were mistaken. I find it really sad that there are people out there who defend genocide in real life, "because they are American" or because they as Socialists admire the Enclave's "realistic goals."

I thought we were merely debating a video game, and then it turns out that there are people, who would cheerfully support the Enclave's programme in real life. It makes me sad and makes me sick to see how far America has fallen, when views such as these can be disseminated. Remember what our fathers fought for on the beaches of Normandy.

I just pray to God that those rabid Enclave fans are a very small minority. To think a video game could bring out such nastiness in some people.

Max

Wow, pretty pathetic, we're being called genocide-endorsers and nazis, because we like a certain faction in a GAME, sorry didn't think it was illegal to have a different viewpoint on a faction in a GAME, sorry if that offends you all. However it is just a GAME

edit: I only support the enclave, because its a game. If it was real (we're saying FO3 is real), then i'd join just to get fed clean food and clean water. They are sick people if it was real, but hey not all of them are evil, some just need to join to get fed for survival.

Wow... just wow.

my answers have a *

It's a little late to pull the "it's just a game" card, when you yourself dragged real life into it by stating:



And then you went on to state:



So excuse us very much for thinking that you would support genocide in real life, when your posts seemed to suggest just that.

Your erstwhile colleague could also lead one to believe that you Enclave fans supported genocide in real life:


I may be a little dim, but to me that sounds like real life, enthusiastic support for genocide, if the cause is the right one. I'm not the one labelling anyone genocidal maniacs. I'd say you boys do that fine by yourselves.

I predict a lock.

I predict a http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/train_old.jpg.