Oh, it's simple. Looking through my Arms Law:

You roll d100 (open-ended, reroll and add on 96-100 until you roll below 96) and add your OB (offensive bonus) and subtract the foe's DB (defensive bonus). Look up in the weapon result table. Say, you have a two-handed sword, and the foe has armour type 5 (heavy leather coat or similar, not really "armour"), and you rolled 140 in total. Why, it's a critical hit, 42E to be precise. That means 42 points of damage right away (ouch, this can outright kill weaker humans) and a roll for the critical table, column "E". So you roll a 88 on the d100 (not bad) look up in the critical table corresponding to this weapon ("Slash", in this case): "He’s unconscious and dies in 9 rounds. His severed leg is probably the reason for that. +15H–1(+10)", with the last part meaning "+15 concussion hits (just to be sure), next attack - on anyone - you have +10 bonus".

There, this is how a normal pen&paper RPG does it.

I agree 100%. Cutting someone in half is very unrealistic. And slashing at someone and having their organs spill out is over-the-top in my opinion. That just reeks of gore for the sake of gore.

I'll just say that it would be disappointing to be driven out of a game genre that I've enjoyed for 30 years (or a game series I've enjoyed for 6+ years), for the sake of what you described there. :sadvaultboy:

If you want dismemberment to be very realistic, then why do you want it to happen during a fight? 99%+ of amputations happened after fighting or during punishments for crime.

I just want it to be realistic. At the very least, persistent wounds. That would fulfill most of my requirements - but honestly, a battle axe could take someone's arm (unarmored) off - and that's what I want. I just want realistic combat. Is that a lot to ask? Fallout is the game to be silly in, but TES should be as (lore respecting, of course) realistic as possible.

Realistically, while a battle axe can take an arm or leg clean off, it is significantly more likely to leave it broken, mauled and cut up beyond recognition, which would then require an amputation (magic methods not counted in). Bethesda should, if they want to include this kind of realism, focus on what happens 99% of the time, not the outliers which likely nobody will ever see in an average game.

I don't understand this mentality. It's as if you want this video game to be more like a board game. Is this a fair anology?

Technology has improved where things can be animated properly to depict what is happening. Almost every game in TES has been hindered by lack of technology to showcase what you're actually doing.

Better animations, graphics, more detail, more realism, better physics, etc. etc., is all implemented to flesh out the game more, to make it more immersive, than a board game for example. Because, after all, this is a video game; not a board game.

I don't want TES to turn into a gib fest. I don't want TES to have gore for the sake of gore. I don't want dismemberments every other battle. I want it to be rare. Very rare.

Let me put my perspective, my point of view in another way. What I want to see a lot in battle is a sword going through the chest, or slicing the neck. This is what happens most in the culmination of a fight. If I had to choose between this and dismembered, I would choose this.... But what I want to see on the most rare occasion is a dismemberment, if all necessary factors are there, to happen. If you're fighting an unarmored troll and you hit him on his elbow multiple times. You see it bleeding. You see the troll favoring that arm as it has become unusable. Too badly injured. The troll's life is near zero. You execute a power move on that same elbow with your axe. I want to see that arm come off from the elbow down.

I'm not quite sure how this ruins your enjoyment of this genre. It's implementing something based on locational hit points (an RPG element). It's visually depicting something that in the past you'd have to imagine, but since we have made technological advancements in video games we can finally actually see it happen.

The benefits of adding these features wont warrant the development time that would have to be put in that could be used to put a genuinely necessary feature in.

I actually agree with you. 99% of the time, if you attack at a specific location enough, you should see it mauled and cut up, profusely bleeding, etc.

But that 1% of the time, you should be able to axe it completely off.

VERY rare. I can't emphasize that enough. I don't like it being omitting because it is still a possibility. It's something that if it were to happen in battle would be quite intense, quite impressive, and sort of a primitive, testosterone driven-pound on the chest kind of experience. I think it really brings the brutally of battle to the forefront. It raises the intensity meter tenfold. Just to KNOW that it could happen, but most likely WON'T unless certain conditions present themselves, really makes me believe that this guy I'm fighting is a living, breathing entity that has penetrable flesh, muscle, bones, etc.

Can you at least understand where I'm coming from? It's definitely not from a gore loving, gib fest point of view.

Implementing something like this doesn't mean everyone stops what they're doing to get it in the game. There are different teams that implement different things. I think some time could be allocated to implementing realistic locational damage, be it mauling, profuse bleeding, and to the very extreme, dismemberment.

How it ruins my enjoyment is..... I don't really want to see graphic violence. That's never been a motivation for me to play any game, regardless of whether it involves guns, swords, laser beams, psychic powers, whatever.

"Realism" has never been my goal in games - playing them and having fun is. I never went into a game of pen-and-paper D&D thinking about bloodspray, cleaving flesh, organs spilling out, whatever - I was perfectly fine with the abstracted representation of "You did 8hp of damage." I gain no enjoyment out of representations of gore & guts, nor any satisfaction in thinking "that's how it really would be."

The whole "I want combat to be a realistic simulation of how blades cut people" thing.... I honestly find kind of disturbing, and can't understand that viewpoint at all.

None of this -



- seems remotely appealing.

Sorry. :shrug:


(personally, I separate "sim" and "game" in my head. A simulation is meant to be an accurate and realistic modeling of some situation. A game is meant to be fun, enjoyable, and playable. Sims sacrifice "gameplay" for accuracy - they're trying to simulate how something actually works, not be easy to use or accessable. I've never perceived MW or OB as "simulations" that were trying to achieve realism.)

I understand your opinion and see where you're coming from. I guess I approach the game where, I want the game to be as believable as possible. A world of magic, dragons, etc., is unrealistic compared to real life. SO, in order to make those aspects more realistic, more believable, you have to make things we know to be believable more realistic. This would include the capabilities of a sword hitting flesh, and how it would react at what force, what angle, etc. It also includes physics, for example, how one would properly rag-doll down a flight of stairs. These are just two examples. The more things we know to be believable are depicted in a more realistic fashion, the more real things like magic and dragons seem.

This is my point of view. It is a game, but I want to be as immersed in the game as much as possible. I like to pursue an emotional attachment to the PC. That makes the game more enjoyable for me. I don't think simulation= not fun. I think a game can be realistic and enjoyable.

yep

and actually katanas are VERY capable of cutting off heads and hands and feet in one well aimed hit of course only a master can do it, but if we are high enough in blade skills aren't we masters

so don't tell me its "unrealistic" to lose a hand or a head in a sword fight, against a Japanese sword master anyways

oh yay gore

bliviongate:

Ah well, maybe so but does that mean it belongs or must be in the game? It's a game. I want to view my stats, my opponents stats and see what damage is done in numbers. Like RPGs have done for many, many years.

That is good enough for me. PnP had no visuals at all and it worked. The game is about building your character, checking your stats, working on those stats to gain levels and abilities and progressing through the game. Visceral animations of gore will do nothing to add to those basic game components and just are not needed in my opinion. Not only do I believe they are not needed, I flat don't want it in this game and when I do want it, I shall go play a different series and genre.