Frame rate issue : III

» Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:38 pm

Hi! I'm new to the forums. After a long time searching for answers and messing around with mods I've added, I have given up and decided to ask everyone here. :confused:
I have found out that the tree mods in the game are bringing down my FPS by a total of 15-20. These are the files in the meshes folder. I've tried putting distant land meshes on low and have noticed no difference. Also raising the static sizes does hardly anything unless there are no modded trees around. The BitterCoast along with the Ascadian Isles gets on average 20 FPS. The worst area however, (besides Balmora) is the entire West Gash which gets on average 15 FPS. I have checked every single other mod and noticed 1 Frame rate loss max from them. Animated grass only causes a 1-2 FPS loss itself.
I'm using Vality and Vurts tree mods. I really don't want to sacrifice these tree mods for Morrowind's default trees because they add the biggest atmosphere to the game. I'm wondering if there are any solutions to this problem?

I have directx9, shadows are disabled, and I have the latest drivers for my computer as well.

Here are my specs:

System Manufacturer: ASUSTeK Computer Inc.
System Model: G73Jh
BIOS: BIOS Date: 10/30/09 15:13:23 Ver: 08.00.10
Processor: Intel® Core™ i7 CPU Q 720 @ 1.60GHz (8 CPUs), ~1.6GHz
Memory: 8192MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 8116MB RAM
Page File: 4100MB used, 12131MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: /PackageInstall
User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 32bit Unicode
Card name: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5870 (1GB)

Thanks in advance! :smile:

» Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:33 pm

If they are hitting your system hard, they're hitting your system hard. Nothing much you can do. I recommend finding other replaces, or turning down Distand Land, or disabling it all together.

Althought, I think I have the same Graphics Card, and It does fine for me. I don't know.

» Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:57 am

Yea I might just have to disable or replace them. :sad:

My distant land is only at 8. Thanks for the reply though!

» Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:52 pm

At 8? Mines at 3! =O

Then again, I just find it more realistic that way =p

» Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:54 am

I am probably mistaken, but I thought I saw a comment or anolysis that the FPS hit of Distant Lands was proportional to the cells you had it calculate. It seems to me that 3 was the optimum number for most systems. Take my info with a grain of salt because I use MGE but not the Distant Lands feature, but that's what I thought I read somewhere when I was looking for info. It's been some time since I did that, and I haven't upgraded my system to warrant more current research about it.

John

» Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:03 pm

I just tested it and sadly it doesn't have any effect in places with the modded trees. Other areas such as Solstheim with only Vurts modded trees version 2 seem to benefit from the tweakings of MGE. Without the distant land turned on I can get up to 40 FPS looking at the land and up to 70 FPS looking at the water. The less modded trees in view the more frame rate I get.

» Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:33 am

I assume you are running a 64bit OS? Have you applied the 4GB patch to the morrowind exe? If not, I'd try it. Without it, the exe can access a max of 2GB of ram - that will probably cause your system to hit the swap file pretty hard and that will almost certainly give you an fps hit.

You might also want to make sure that you take a look at your power profiles for the OS. Make sure it's running with a high performance profile then get in there and tweak it and make sure it isn't limiting anything. For reference, generally speaking, if you are running on the battery the hardware will get scaled back and you will see a performance hit - even on a high performance power profile - so it's worth doing your testing whilst plugged into the mains.

» Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:05 am

My system is good enough to run literally everything at 1920x1080 with everything maxed out in the DX9/10 realm and IT has trouble with Morrowind with MGE's distant land cells enabled. I can barely run it with 5 distant cells without dipping into single digits sometimes. On the flip side, people with slightly better video cards than mine are running with 30 distant cells and never dropping below 30 FPS. It's so unfair.

» Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:12 am

What IS your GPU, anyway, Loze? Your system and setup sounds remarkably similar to mine, so I wouldn't mind sharing my MGE-centric findings with you to improve your performance as much as can be done without getting a new $200 GPU.

» Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:54 pm

My system is good enough to run literally everything at 1920x1080 with everything maxed out in the DX9/10 realm and IT has trouble with Morrowind with MGE's distant land cells enabled. I can barely run it with 5 distant cells without dipping into single digits sometimes. On the flip side, people with slightly better video cards than mine are running with 30 distant cells and never dropping below 30 FPS. It's so unfair.

Generally this is due to the CPU, not the GPU. That sounds like it shouldn't be so, but morrowind is a pretty CPU intensive game and really doesn't take advantage of recent advances in GPU architecture. MGE is effectively a *very* clever dll hack - it will never be as optomised as a newer game. The only way we could potentially see that kind of optomisation is with one of the open source morrowind engines.

For reference, I'm running with a Radeon HD 6950 (with 2GB GDDR5 RAM). Even with MGE morrowind doesn't work it *that* hard. I've got 8GB system RAM. The CPU however is only an Intel Q6600 Core 2 Quad (OC'd to 3GHz) - and that takes a beating - especially from mods that require some heavy scripts (such as BMS and/or MCA). I'm also only running 7200RPM drives, so that won't help file access times.

I've only just started to work through my mods to fix minor conflicts etc, but once I finish I'll start optomising my graphics settings.

I'm running at 1920x1080 with AA at 4x and AF at x16.

World textures and normal maps are maxed, meshes are at ultra, statics are set to the default sizes. Grass density is 100, mesh detail is full and I'm not skipping any mipmap levels.

Distant land is enabled with 25 cells, SM 3.0, exponential fog, full reflections, dynamic ripples and caustics. Distant statics are enabled with default values (200, 600, 800).

Shaders:

Phals HDRbloom
knx ssao wfixes by Phal (interiors only)
knx DoF wpk and weaker
Phals sunshaft v3
Underwater Blur
Water Wobble

With all that I get a pretty low fps as you might imagine - usually around the 12fps mark. As I said, I'll be looking to improve that when I've finished playing about and testing.

I can post my current modlist if anyones interested - I'm using about 240ish esp's, including Vality and Vurt's work (which is simply stunning).

For reference, I'm currently using MGE rather than MGEXE (I really liked the shadows on XE, but I missed my 3D waves too much. I also needed MWSE for a couple of mods).

» Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:04 am

MORROWIND is CPU-intensive. It was back in its day. However, MGE is GPU-intensive. It's GPU-intensive because people can run the game with crazy framerates and ridiculous draw distances with the same CPU as mine but with Crossfired ATI 6970s. Remember, MGE has no LOS occlusion. It renders every roll of every hill even in every distant cell even if you can't SEE it from where you are. Also, MGE XE's shaders are customizable, simply increase the yields on the shaders. And MGE XE has MWSE.

» Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:57 pm

Oh, and I'm running a Q6600 @3.0GHz, 8 gigs of RAM, 64-bit OS, 7200RPM drives, et cetera. Same crap as your system, basically. Difference is that I have a GTX260 for my GPU and not a retardo-awesome card like yours. I run at FIVE distant frames and even then it dips to single digits sometimes. So yeah, video card matters.

» Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:02 pm

Well I have tested it after doing the 4GB patch and have noticed no FPS increase. But I think it wont make me crash randomly (which isn't a big problem for me since I save a lot in games).

You might also want to make sure that you take a look at your power profiles for the OS. Make sure it's running with a high performance profile then get in there and tweak it and make sure it isn't limiting anything

How would I do that exactly?
As a side note I'm using MGEXE.
The only one thing that puzzles me is I once played for 30 minutes in the West Gash area and my computer suddenly started working harder and went from 15FPS to 40FPS. For some reason it hasn't happened since.
I haven't played for a long period of time being over an hour because I'm just testing for errors and frame rate right now before I get into the game. Still I don't think it should take an hour or more for my computer to start working harder to give me a better FPS.
Thanks for the patch by the way!

» Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:16 pm

Nevermind about the power profiles. :facepalm:
It's not limiting anything.

» Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:30 pm

Forgive the intrusion, but I didn't want to waste space on the front page with a topic asking essentially the same question. I'll post as much info as I can below (in spoilers tags) to give a better chance at diagnosing the problem.

Load order

Spoiler

_001_ Morrowind.esm
_002_ Tribunal.esm
_003_ Bloodmoon.esm
_004_ Texture Fix - Bloodmoon 1.1.esm
_005_ Texture Fix 1.8.esm
_006_ Morrowind Patch 1.6.5 Beta (BTB Edit).esm
_007_ Morrowind Advanced.esm
_008_ TLM - Ambient Light + Fog Update.esp
_009_ TLM - Light Sources (Clearer Lighting).esp
_010_ Balmora Un-Mod.esp
_011_ SirLuthor-Tools.esp
_012_ Unique Banners and Signs.esp
_013_ Key Replacer Trib & BM.esp
_014_ Statue Replacer - Normal.esp
_015_ bones.esp
_016_ Windows Glow.esp
_017_ Shieldfx.esp
_018_ Barabus' fireplaces 2.esp
_019_ OR_Fang.esp
_020_ Book Jackets - Morrowind.esp
_021_ abotWindowsGlow.esp
_022_ Book Jackets - Tribunal.esp
_023_ Book Jackets - Bloodmoon.esp
_024_ Expanded Sounds.esp
_025_ NewBlood_MwTbBm1.1.esp
_026_ Neo's Unique Creatures.esp
_027_ correctUV Ore Replacer 1.0.esp
_028_ Bloated Caves.esp
_029_ Graphic Herbalism.esp
_030_ Graphic Herbalism Extra.esp
_031_ GH_ES1.3 Patch.esp
_032_ GH_Extra_ES1.3 Patch.esp
_033_ almalexia armor.esp
_034_ Vality's Ascadian Isles Addon.esp
_035_ WA_Signy_Signposts(!).ESP
_036_ BetterClothesForTB.esp
_037_ Westly's Master Headpack X.esp
_038_ New Veloth's Judgement 2.esp
_039_ Vality's Bitter Coast Addon.esp
_040_ Vality's Balmora Addon.esp
_041_ Better Skulls.ESP
_042_ Appropriate Greetings M - T - 1.5.2.esp
_043_ Creatures.esp
_044_ UAR_ChodalaBoots.esp
_045_ Water Level Fix - Full.esp
_046_ Psy_IronMeshImprove_Uniques_BME.esp
_047_ ExcellentMagicSounds.esp
_048_ New Argonian Bodies - Clean.esp
_049_ New Khajiit Bodies - Clean.esp
_050_ Unique Tombs.esp
_051_ Ebonheart Fix.ESP
_052_ Windows Glow - Tribunal Eng.esp
_053_ Windows Glow - Bloodmoon Eng.esp
_054_ Arrow De-nocker.esp
_055_ bcsounds.esp
_056_ Windows Glow - Raven Rock Eng.esp
_057_ SNR_ThievesStep_Standart.esp
_058_ DA_Complete.esp
_059_ EcoAdjCrime (Tresspass Edit).esp
_060_ EcoAdjMerchantSkills (Disposition Edit).esp
_061_ Unique Jewelry and Accessories.esp
_062_ Protective Guards.esp
_063_ BTB - Character.esp
_064_ BTB - Spells.esp
_065_ BTB - Alchemy.esp
_066_ BTB - Equipment.esp
_067_ BTB - Settings.esp
_068_ Better Clothes Complete (BTB Edit).esp
_069_ DM_DB Armor Replacer-ExpDDBA (BTB Edit).esp
_070_ IceBradyHurdyRobeReplacerPLUS (BTB Edit).esp
_071_ IceNioLivRobeReplacerPLUS (BTB Edit).esp
_072_ guarskin_drum_replacer.esp
_073_ Vurt's Grazelands Trees Bushy.esp
_074_ TLM - Light Sources (Lanterns).esp
_075_ Animated Morrowind.esp
_076_ Vurt's Ashlands Overhaul.esp
_077_ TLM - External Lights Ownership.esp
_078_ Talrivian's State-Based HP Mod v.2.2.esp
_079_ Quick Char (Timescale Edit).esp
_080_ Vurt's Grazelands Trees.esp
_081_ LeftGloves_Addon_v2.esp
_082_ UniqueFinery.esp
_083_ Area Effect Projectiles (PAR Edit).esp
_084_ MW_Adv_Required (BTB Edit).esp
_085_ Service Requirements (BTB Edit).esp
_086_ Mashed Lists.esp

MGE XE settings

Spoiler

Resolution: 1280x800 (1440x900 native)
AA: 8x
AF: 16x
Shaders (disabled in exteriors)

SSAO Fast
Underwater Interior Effects
Bloom Soft
HDR

Mipmap LOD Bias: -1
Depth Pixel Fog

Distant Land ON
Draw distance: 2.0 cells
Distant Statics: 200 - 999 - 999
Exponential Fog ON
Exponential Distance Multiplier: 4.0
High quality atmosphere & distance colouring ON
Water reflections: all
World texture/normalmap resolution: 4096
World mesh detail: Ultra High
Grass density: 50%
Mesh Detail: Full
Mipmap levels to skip: 2

System specs

Spoiler

OS: Vista 32
CPU: Athlon 64 x2 3800+ 2.0GHz
GPU: Radeon 5750 1 GB
RAM: 3 GB

Right now I'm getting anywhere between 5-10 FPS in exteriors with this setup. I've played with MGE settings in-game and out-of-game, and the only thing that seems to affect me by more than one or two FPS is Distant land. If I disable it my FPS hover around 17. I'm assuming that the problem is my CPU (state of the art ca. 2005!), but I do realize that my GPU isn't exactly state-of-the-art either, and my RAM could use an upgrade. Who's the biggest culprit, do you think? Will upgrading parts have a huge effect on running the game?

» Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:02 am

Disable shaders and see what you get. I noticed when I disabled it I got a good 10-15 frames back in those areas without the modded trees(Solstheim). That way you can keep distant lands on at least.

» Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:22 pm

Shaders, on my system, have absolutely ZERO effect on performance, and I mean ZERO. HQ SSAO and all 5 of the other recommended MGE XE ones yield exactly zero change whether they're off or on in performance. And, yes, they're working. I cannot recommend highly enough that you leave every single setting of quality enabled and just tweak the distant land cell count.

» Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:04 am

I've flagged all my shaders to automatically disable in exteriors. Nets me a gain of two or three FPS, which I'll take, but I'm still sitting around 5 FPS between Seyda Neen and Pelagiad.