No portable alchemy equipment?

Post » Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:50 pm

How isn't it dumbing down. If I can only make potions/poisons at certain locations, with no variable in the equipment I use. Same with repairing, if its stationary. Seems like they not only took the good stuff from the newer Fallout's (the difficulty and leveling, perks, etc.), but the bad as well (linear crafting/repairing etc.) If there truly isn't any portable Repairing/Alchemy.


If i may, hypothetically, the crappy alchemical set in the corner of the open forum library at the guildhall may produce lower quality potion in annex to skill level of course. Where as the more private, higher level alcolaves of the institutions mayhaps be home to have higher quality sets, as does your own home's upgradeable and customizable set. Not to mention the quest that rewards you with a mobile potion concocter that requires no more than you not being in battle or in mid air to use, at the cost of quality? They could do a lot that actually smartens up these system and the 'dumbing down' labels for smart developers is a cheap blow against a game we barely seen the suface of.
Just saying, from a alchemist with faith....
User avatar
Alexandra Louise Taylor
 
Posts: 3449
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:48 pm

Post » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:01 am

A quote from IGN's preview. Makes me wonder...

While I agree with a change that would require the usage of stationary apparatus for powerful potions I am a little concerned about two points.

- first, this would be just another pointless cut and limitation of something that is already in the game world if they completely prohibit mobile alchemy.

- second, in a corner of an inn??? Seriously? Like out in the inn common room? So, mixing and playing with dangerous and potentially poisonous chemicals....an activity best done secreted away in a lair, basemant, or workshop....is being done in the corner of an inn?


I just do not understand Beth's backwards approach to so many things. I completely understand "streamlining" (for the purpose of cleaning up and making better). But to purposely devolve game play...it makes no sense (for a single person open-world game). And to do something that is just goofy like a drive-through alchemy set? :confused:
User avatar
El Khatiri
 
Posts: 3568
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 2:43 am

Post » Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:23 pm

If i may, hypothetically, the crappy alchemical set in the corner of the open forum library at the guildhall may produce lower quality potion in annex to skill level of course. Where as the more private, higher level alcolaves of the institutions mayhaps be home to have higher quality sets, as does your own home's upgradeable and customizable set. Not to mention the quest that rewards you with a mobile potion concocter that requires no more than you not being in battle or in mid air to use, at the cost of quality? They could do a lot that actually smartens up these system and the 'dumbing down' labels for smart developers is a cheap blow against a game we barely seen the suface of.
Just saying, from a alchemist with faith....

And whats the point of all that If I have my own alchemy set. A set that most likely would be given to me in the early part of the game. Not to mention Beths record of "streamlining/dumbing down". Logically, there will be no portable alchemy, etc. It will just be a linear shell of its former self. According to trends at least.
User avatar
Angela Woods
 
Posts: 3336
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:15 pm

Post » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:55 pm

Lame. More dumbing down. I bet there isn't even grades of alchemical equipment.

I hope you're trolling, if not, this is logical, you have to think before going out adventuring. "Should I go out to a dungeon so I can get it over with, or should I take some time to make some potions first?) It is more dumb to use a bunch of equipment to make potions in the middle of combat. We don't have a PipBoy to pause combat in the Elder Scrolls :D
User avatar
Laura Richards
 
Posts: 3468
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:42 am

Post » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:39 am

I hope you're trolling, if not, this is logical, you have to think before going out adventuring. "Should I go out to a dungeon so I can get it over with, or should I take some time to make some potions first?) It is more dumb to use a bunch of equipment to make potions in the middle of combat. We don't have a PipBoy to pause combat in the Elder Scrolls :D

Nothing logical about that. If Im an Alchemist, I have portable equipment. It is more dumb to have no variable and a linear crafting mechanic.
User avatar
Ezekiel Macallister
 
Posts: 3493
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:08 pm

Post » Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:03 pm

Nothing logical about that. If Im an Alchemist, I have portable equipment.



Is it more logical to be able to mix potions while swimming? Or on your horse?
User avatar
Meghan Terry
 
Posts: 3414
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:53 am

Post » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:40 pm

Nothing logical about that. If Im an Alchemist, I have portable equipment. It is more dumb to have no variable and a linear crafting mechanic.

Sure, maybe a Mortar & Pestle, but a full-blown alchemy set? In the middle of combat? A bunch of vials, tools in the middle of combat? None of the previous equipment for alchemy in Elder Scrolls have logically been portable. Sure, they were implemented as such, but it never made any sense. Does a warrior carry around an anvil and sevaral hammers to craft/repair swords? No. It seems the phrase "dumbing down" is used now just to describe something people don't like that comes in a new game. I guess adding a new lockpicking system that is totally new to us is also "dumbing down", especially since it isn't something we've already done hundreds of times. Guess we should just keep the similar system we already used that is outdated and familiar to keep it best(sarcasm).
Edit:
We also don't even know if we can upgrade the alchemy set or not, so a "linear crafting mechanic" isn't even a factor if we don't know specifics yet.
User avatar
WTW
 
Posts: 3313
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 7:48 pm

Post » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:31 am

Is it more logical to be able to mix potions while swimming? Or on your horse?

So you negate that option. "Imershun" addict temporarily placated. You couldn't repair during combat in OB, why should you be able to mix potions. Simply make it not an option. Still doesnt make up for equipment variables and portability, if they are out.
User avatar
Peter P Canning
 
Posts: 3531
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 2:44 am

Post » Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:09 pm

Hopefully you can buy Alchemy stations at your house so you can use it and possibly upgrade it there.

Also, I really don't care if there's no upgrades to it. I never noticed much of a difference anyway.
User avatar
Kristian Perez
 
Posts: 3365
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:03 am

Post » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:59 pm

I never noticed much of a difference anyway.



You cannot be serious.
User avatar
Sunnii Bebiieh
 
Posts: 3454
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:57 pm

Post » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:55 pm

Is it more logical to be able to mix potions while swimming? Or on your horse?

Just as logical as carrying around 100k in gold or 5 swords. ;)
User avatar
Katie Pollard
 
Posts: 3460
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:23 pm

Post » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:45 pm

Sure, maybe a Mortar & Pestle, but a full-blown alchemy set? In the middle of combat? A bunch of vials, tools in the middle of combat? None of the previous equipment for alchemy in Elder Scrolls have logically been portable. Sure, they were implemented as such, but it never made any sense. Does a warrior carry around an anvil and sevaral hammers to craft/repair swords? No. It seems the phrase "dumbing down" is used now just to describe something people don't like that comes in a new game. I guess adding a new lockpicking system that is totally new to us is also "dumbing down", especially since it isn't something we've already done hundreds of times. Guess we should just keep the similar system we already used that is outdated and familiar to keep it best(sarcasm).

Again, you fix its implication (no crafting during combat), you don't dumb it down to a Fallout level. We wouldnt have a game if everything was 'logical'. There would be no inventory system, or swimming without it being an excessive chore. Its a game. A game that needs variables. The rest of your comment was some hyperbole about lock picking? Something that has nothing to do with what Im talking about.
User avatar
Eduardo Rosas
 
Posts: 3381
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:15 pm

Post » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:35 pm

Just as logical as carrying around 100k in gold or 5 swords. ;)



Because magic, dragons, undead creatures...they're so realistic eh? :)




People who use this kind of argument do not recognize that there are cases where suspension of disbelief is 'acceptable' to the audience, and there are cases where it is not. Everyone KNOWS you can't do the things you mentioned, but it is easier to suspend disbelief for them than say there being a refrigerator in your inventory (even though it may be lighter).
User avatar
tegan fiamengo
 
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:53 am

Post » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:05 am

I actually like that better because its more realistic. nobody can carry around a full alchemy set. And it equated it with all the other most likely static crafting apparatuses like the forge and enchanting altar.


Because magic, dragons, undead creatures...they're so realistic eh? :)

Do I want to carry around everything I own? Nah, but having some alchemical ability in the field would be a good thing.
User avatar
Jerry Cox
 
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:21 pm

Post » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:12 pm

*double post
User avatar
Damned_Queen
 
Posts: 3425
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:18 pm

Post » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:53 am

Again, you fix its implication (no crafting during combat), you don't dumb it down to a Fallout level. We wouldnt have a game if everything was 'logical'. There would be no inventory system, or swimming without it being an excessive chore. Its a game. A game that needs variables.

What about skills, perks, and collecting certain ingredients, aren't those variables? Again, we still don't fully know the whole alchemy system, this is just a small hint of what it is, so instantly assuming it is "dumbed down" is pretty biased.
User avatar
Mason Nevitt
 
Posts: 3346
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 8:49 pm

Post » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:57 am

Sure, maybe a Mortar & Pestle, but a full-blown alchemy set? In the middle of combat? A bunch of vials, tools in the middle of combat? None of the previous equipment for alchemy in Elder Scrolls have logically been portable.



I have to agree with this. I'm sure there are some potions or salves you can make by mixing some powder with a liquid, etc., but actual alchemical processes require boiling, condensing and distilling liquids, burning components, inducing fermentation in compounds and other processes that take a long period of time, etc.

A portable alchemy lab would be massive, not something that would fit in a backpack, and it would end up being something you set up in a stable location like a cabin or living quarters.

Here is a list of 109 different medieval alchemical processes - many require a heat source, waiting times or other special conditions:

Spoiler


1. Ablation
The separation of a component by removing the upper part, sometimes by skimming it off the surface or by wicking it up using a feather or cloth.
2. Albification
The making of the matter in the alchemical work become white.

3. Ablution
The purification of a substance by successive washings with a liquid.

4. Amalgamation
Formation of an amalgam, or alloy, of a metal with mercury. This term is sometimes extended to mean any union of metals.

5. Ascension
When the active or subtle part rises up in the flask, usually by heating.

6. Assation
The reduction of a substance to a dry ash by roasting.

7. Calcination
The breaking down of a substance by fierce heating and burning usually in an open crucible.

8. Cementation
Acting upon a substance by mixing it in layers with a powdered (often corrosive) material, such as lime. This mixture is then be made to react and weld together by heating to a high temperature in a cementing furnace.

9. Ceration
The making of a substance to soften and appear like wax. This is often accomplished by continually adding a liquid and heating.

10. Cineration
The reduction of a substance to ashes by heating.

11. Circulation
The purification of a substance by a circular distillation in a pelican or closed distillation apparatus. Through heating the liquid component separates, is condensed and descends again to the substance in the flask.

12. Coadunation
Another term for coagulation.

13. Coagulation
The conversion of a thin liquid into a solid mixture through some inner change, as with the curdling of milk. This can be accomplished by a variety of means - by the addition of a substance, by heating or cooling.

14. Coction
The cooking or heating of a substance at a moderate heat for an extended period.

15. Cohobation
The frequent removal of the moist component of a substance by heating. Often the moist component (or some other liquid) is added and the process continued.

16. Colliquation
The conjuction or melting together of two fusible substances.

17. Coloration
Tinging a substance by adding a dye or coloured tincture. Colouring can by either by tinging the whole body or by producing a surface coating.

18. Combustion
The burning of a sustance in the open air.

19. Comminution
The reduction of a substance into a powder, either by grinding, pulverising, or forcing it through a sieve.

20. Composition
The joining together of two different substances.

21. Conception
The marriage or union of the male and female aspects of substances.

22. Concoction
The cooking or heating of a mixture of substances at a moderate heat for an extended period.

23. Congelation
The conversion of a thin flowing liquid into a congealed thick substance, often by heating.

24. Conglutination
The conversion of a substance into a gluey mass, often by a putrefaction.

25. Conjunction
The joining of two opposite components, often seen as the union of the male and female, the subtle and gross, or even the elements.

26. Contrition
The reduction of a substance into powder only by means of fire.

27. Copulation
A conjunction, or joining of two opposite components, seen through the metaphor of the union of the male and female, or the union of the fixed and the volatile.

28. Corrosion
The eating up of a substance by an acid, alkali or corrosive material.

29. Cribation
The reduction of a substance to a powder by forcing through a sieve or mesh.

30. Crystallization
The formation of crystals out of a solution of the substance usually in water, either by their gradual formation from the liquid, or by evaporation of the liquid.

31. Dealbation
The making of the black substance of the alchemical process become brilliant white.

32. Decoction
The digestion of a substance in the flask without the addition of any other material.

33. Decrepitation
The crackling and spliiting apart of substances, for example common salt, on heating.

34. Deliquium
The reduction of a solid placed in a damp place to a liquid by its absorbing water from the air.

35. Descension
When the subtle or active part of a substance is made to go down to the bottom of a flask, rather than ascend as a vapour.

36. Dessication
The drying or removal of all the moisture in a substance.

37. Detonation
The explosive burning of substances on heating, for example substances mixed with nitre.

38. Digestion
The slow modification of a substance by means of a gentle heat.

39. Disintegration
The breaking down or dissociation of a substance into different parts.

40. Dispoliaration
The dissolving or transforming of a dead substance into a liquid.

41. Dissociation
The breaking down or disintegration of a substance into different parts.

42. Dissolution
The dissolving or transforming of a substance into a liquid.

43. Distillation
The separation of a volatile component from a substance by heating so as to drive off the component as a vapour which is condensed and collected in a cooler part of the apparatus.

44. Divapouration
An exhalation of dry vapours from a substance, which can occur at different degrees of heat.

45. Division
The separation of a substance into its elements.

46. Ebullition
An effervescence produced through fermentation.

47. Edulceration
The washing of a salty substance till all the salts are removed.

48. Elaboration
The general term for the process of separating the pure from the impure, and leading a sustance towards perfection, which can be done through a variety of means and processes.

49. Elevation
The raising of the subtle parts of a substance upwards, away from the bodily residues, into the upper parts of the vessel.

50. Elixeration
The conversion of a substance into an elixir.

51. Evaporation
The removal of the watery part of a substance by gentle heating, or being left a long time in a dry place.

52. Exaltation
An operation by which a substance is raised into a purer and more perfect nature.

53. Exhalation
The release of a gas or air from a substance.

54. Expression
Extraction of juices by means of a press.

55. Extraction
The preparation of the subtler and purer parts of a substance, usually by macerating it in alcohol. The extract can then be separated from the residue.

56. Fermentation
The rotting of a substance, usually of an organic nature, often accompanied by the release of gas bubbles.

57. Filtration
The process or removing the grosser parts of a substance by passing through a strainer, filter or cloth.

58. Fixation
The make a volatile subject fixed or solid, so that it remains permanently unaffected by fire.

59. Foliation
The making some substances puff up in layers, like leaves lying on top of one another, usually undertaken by heating.

60. Fulmination
The preparation of a fulminate or explosively unstable form of a metal. Sometimes applied to any process in which a sudden eruptive event occurs.

61. Fumigation
The alteration of a substance by exposing it to a corroding smoke.

62. Fusion
The joining of powdered substances together, or the conversion of a substance into a new form, by means of an extremely high degree of heat, sometimes using a flux.

63. Glutination
Turning a substance into a gluey, glutinous mass.

64. Gradation
The gradual purification of a substance, often through a series of stages.

65. Granulation
The reduction of a substance to grains or powder. There are various means of doing this - pounding, grinding, using thermal shock by heating and rapid cooling, and many others.

66. Grinding
The reduction of substances to a powder, usually through the use of a mortar and pestle.

67. Humectation
A process by which humidity is given to the substance, usually not by the direct additon of liquid, but by a gradual process of absorbing moisture.

68. Ignition
The self-calcination of a substance by it burning itself in a crucible.

69. Imbibition
The feeding of a process by the gradual and continuing addition of some substance.

70. Impastation
When the matter undergoing putrefaction thickens or congeals into the consistency of molten black pitch.

71. Impregnation
The alchemical process is sometimes paralleled with the gestation of a child. Thus impregnation follows from the union or copulation of the male and female, and leads to the generation of a new substance.

72. Inceration
The making of a substance into a soft waxy consistency, usually by combining it with water.

73. Incineration
The conversion of a substance to ashes by means of a powerful fire.

74. Incorporation
The mingling of mixed bodies into a conglomerate mass.

75. Ingression
This occurs when substances combine in such a manner that they cannot afterwards be separated.

76. Inhumation
To bury under the earth, sometimes used to mean any process that buries the active substance in a dark earthy material. Also applied to placing a flask in the warm heat of a dung bath.

77. Liquefaction
The turning of a solid material into a liquid, either by melting or dissolving.

78. Lixiviation
The oxidation of sulphide ores by exposing them to air and water. This forms vitriols.

79. Luting
The sealing of a flask or other apparatus through the use of a lute, or resinous paste which once applied sets hard and produces an airtight seal.

80. Maturation
A general term applied to identify the appearance of a degree of perfection in the work.

81. Melting
The reduction of a metal or substance to a liquid through heating.

82. Mortification
Here the substance undergoes a kind of death, usually through a putrefaction, and seems to have been destroyed and its active power lost, but eventually is revived.

83. Multiplication
The operation by which the powder of projection has its power multiplied.

84. Precipitation
The descent of a substance out of a solution. The precipitate descends to the bottom of the flask.

85. Preparation
The process by which superfluous substances are removed from the matter and that which is wanting is added to it.

86. Projection
The throwing of a ferment or tincture onto a substance in order to effect a transformation of the substance.

87. Prolectation
The separation of a substance into a subtle and more coarse part by the thinning or rarefaction of the subtler parts of the substance, rather than the coarsening of the earthy part.

88. Pulverisation
The breaking down of a substance to smaller fragments through being repeatedly struck with a blunt instrument, such as a hammer, or mallet.

89. Purgation
The purging or purifying of a sustance by it casting forth a gross part.

90. Putrefaction
The rotting of a substance, often under a prolonged gentle moist heat. Usually the matter becomes black.

91. Quinta Essentia
The making of a quintessence, or highly elevated form of a substance.

92. Rarefaction
The making of a substance extremely subtle or thin and airy.

93. Rectification
The purification of the matter by means of repeated distillations, the distillate being again distilled.

94. Reiteration
The repetition of a process, particularly applied to circular distillation, in which the distillate is returned to the vessel, and the process continued for many cycles.

95. Resolution
This occurs when substances which are mixed together become violently separated by being placed into a solution. Thus milk is in this sense resolved by vinegar. This process is similar to coagulation.

96. Restinction
Here a substance at white heat is brought to perfection by being quenched in an exalting liquid.

97. Reverberation
An ignition or calcination at a high temperature, in a reverberating furnace.

98. Revivification
The bringing of a mortified matter back to life, or reactivating it.

99. Rubification
The making of the matter in the alchemical process from white to red.

100. Segregation
The separation of a composite substance into its parts.

101. Separation
The making of two opposite components separate from each other. Often alternated with the conjunction process.

102. Stratification
An operation which produces layers in the substance in the flask.

103. Subduction
The separation of abstraction downward of the subtle part, as in filtration.

104. Sublimation
This occurs when a solid is heated and gives off a vapour which condenses on the cool upper parts of the vessel as a solid, not going through a liquid phase. An example is sal ammoniac.

105. Subtilation
The separation of the subtle part of a substance from the gross.

106. Transudation
This occurs if the essence appears to sweat out in drops during a descending distillation.

107. Trituration
The reduction of a substance to a powder, not necessarily by the use of grinding, but by the application of heat.

108. Vitrification
The making of a substance into a glass but strong heating and sometimes the addition of lime.

109. Vitriolification
The making of a vitriol. Most often from a metal by the direct action of oil of vitriol, but sometimes by a more indirect route.

User avatar
Darlene Delk
 
Posts: 3413
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:48 am

Post » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:42 pm

What about skills, perks, and collecting certain ingredients, aren't those variables? Again, we still don't fully know the whole alchemy system, this is just a small hint of what it is, so instantly assuming it is "dumbed down" is pretty biased.

The guy came across a whole alchemy station before he came across one portable alchemical device. Sure by chance there is still variable, with different grades of alchemical blah, blah... But I'm just worried about the perceived direction, as a whole.
User avatar
Laura-Lee Gerwing
 
Posts: 3363
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:46 am

Post » Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:29 pm

So you negate that option. "Imershun" addict temporarily placated. You couldn't repair during combat in OB, why should you be able to mix potions. Simply make it not an option. Still doesnt make up for equipment variables and portability, if they are out.



You are assuming full negatives, that everything that could be there isn't. It is possible to do the exact same in the opposite direction, there is no evidence of either.

How do we know it isn't:

Low level alchemy = Only stationary alchemy benchs.
Medium alchemy = Stationary benchs + limited mobile tools that create weaker potions
High level alchemy = Stationary benchs gain extra bonuses and mobile tools are full strength.

Even more options could be there to provide immersion such as:

Ingredients that degrade over time, meaning low level alchemists may still use them but on top of creating a poor potion due to skill an added layer of speed is required to get to the nearest bench before your ingredient degrades.

Some ingredient properties change depending on conditions such as exposure to heat, exposure to water, exposure to words from the dragon language.

High level "work bench" available in signature locations that aren't actually benches and provide unique bonuses to potions and poisons. A lake where submerging your alchemical equipment while creating gives it bonuses.

A flame in a deep cave that mixing a potion over gives it bonuses.

A fridge to store and "freeze" degrading ingredients for later use.

A time mechanic where some potions would require simmering for a period of time before full properties are acquired, high level workbench required or perk deep in the alchemy tree.

The ability to create poisons/potions you can "pour out" to create an effect puddle similar to the new Trap based spells you can place on the ground.

There is so much that can be done with alchemy and it doesn't take much thought to make these kind of mechanics. I have faith that bethesda will make alchemy fun.
User avatar
Agnieszka Bak
 
Posts: 3540
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:15 pm

Post » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:08 pm

You are assuming full negatives, that everything that could be there isn't. It is possible to do the exact same in the opposite direction, there is no evidence of either.

How do we know it isn't:

Low level alchemy = Only stationary alchemy benchs.
Medium alchemy = Stationary benchs + limited mobile tools that create weaker potions
High level alchemy = Stationary benchs gain extra bonuses and mobile tools are full strength.

Even more options could be there to provide immersion such as:

Ingredients that degrade over time, meaning low level alchemists may still use them but on top of creating a poor potion due to skill an added layer of speed is required to get to the nearest bench before your ingredient degrades.

Some ingredient properties change depending on conditions such as exposure to heat, exposure to water, exposure to words from the dragon language.

High level "work bench" available in signature locations that aren't actually benches and provide unique bonuses to potions and poisons. A lake where submerging your alchemical equipment while creating gives it bonuses.

A flame in a deep cave that mixing a potion over gives it bonuses.

A fridge to store and "freeze" degrading ingredients for later use.

A time mechanic where some potions would require simmering for a period of time before full properties are acquired, high level workbench required or perk deep in the alchemy tree.

The ability to create poisons/potions you can "pour out" to create an effect puddle similar to the new Trap based spells you can place on the ground.

There is so much that can be done with alchemy and it doesn't take much thought to make these kind of mechanics. I have faith that bethesda will make alchemy fun.

Assuming you haven't played the previous titles and been here for all of the PR etc. Yes, I would consent to that, but again, Im just going by my perception of Beth's history. Fact is, Beth could make a ridiculously dumbed down game, to the fifth power, and it would still be superior to every other game (Other than previous Beth efforts, subjectively).
User avatar
Daniel Holgate
 
Posts: 3538
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 1:02 am

Previous

Return to V - Skyrim