The problem for me has to do with the nomenclature. The term "casual" has evolved to mean distilled and/or dumbed-down, when traditionally the term was used to define games that do not require marathon sittings to play. I'm not up on my gaming history, but I believe the distinction between hardcoe and casual games evolved out of MMOs and some FPSs as a way to distinguish them as more time-consuming than average single-player games. In time, however, "casual" has gained a negative connotation which does imply a simpler game that caters to the largest audience possible--casual gamers. As the gaming industry grows and as businesses realize how much money is at stake, the trend is to make games that appeal to wider audiences than they have in the past, thereby necessitating games that are user-friendly and easier to jump into (and out of). This has, I think, both good and bad implications for gaming. On one hand, more players equates to more money in developers' pockets that they can then spend on more games. On the other, appealing to everyone necessarily means it isn't perfect for anyone.

Casual games have had an impact--both negative and positive--with the trend toward negative.

99% negative. They really shouldn't be allowed to have any say in these games, and they're lucky they even get to play them.

Honestly, everything I've seen/heard about the game so far leads me to believe it will be, overall, a deeper and more complex game than previous installments, maybe even surpassing Morrowind. They have removed the complexity of some aspects of the game, but added much in other areas.

Yes, the game is being dumbed down. That's the sad truth. I guess we'll just have to live with it.

I stopped giving your post credit after that. No game, let alone Skyrim, will surpass Morrowind if it doesn't have many of the same features.

If I had my way, we'd add "hardcoe" and "casual" to our list of forum-censored words.

Please do remember to keep this thread civil - opinions on this may be strong, but it's still no excuse for flaming or inappropriate behavior.

Personally? I've never thought of the Elder Scrolls as all that complicated a game to begin with. This fan-base spends a lot of time in this game - especially compared to other franchises. The roleplaying aspect is what I feel is the big draw for this game (hence why we see the word "immersive" so often around here.) And that's really very little, mechanically, to do with whether or not a game is complex or deep.

In fact - back in the tabletop roleplaying days, the general trend was that more rules simply got in the way of "roleplaying." Hence, systems with more of a focus on the roleplaying, tended to have more streamlined rules (see most modern-day LARPing rules, for example.) And the rise of that sort of focus was seen as the bane of those following more intensive systems. Gamers who wanted more rules saw the other games as too "fluffy," and those who wanted more roleplaying emphasis thought that the other (generally older) gamers should have stuck to playing strategy games with their miniatures, and needed to "get with the times."