lol! makes me laugh when people start arguing about what is an RPG?
ok OP what games do YOU consider TRUE RPG's please? let us know that then we might be able to make some sort of comparison!
In my opinion (and i said MY opinion!) an RPG is an open world game where you have character progression with levelling up, getting better gear (loot) etc being able to improve on weapon skills and spells etc and have different classes/races to choose from!

nowadays many action games have taken onboard RPG elements in their gameplay and structure, look @ the COD games for e.g, now a lot of you might not enjoy these shoot em ups, but when modern FPS titles take RPG gameplay snippets like levelling up, perks, better gear etc etc it a nice nod to our fave genre and also makes for a better game imo as everyone likes to see their character moving up the levels and getting better equipped, more of a bad a$$

so imho, Skyrim is every bit an RPG, its got the free roam open world environment, the character progression & the different combination of classes and races to choose from and mix and match as you please!

Why do so many people post negative things about a game?? for me if i dont like a certain title then i dont post?? makes me think of all the hardcoe fallout 1 & 2 players when FO3 was about to drop, they were p**sed lol!! complaining about every single little detail, and gets very boring after a while!
dont like it, dont play it....simple but please stop droning on..........

I really really really reaaaaalllyyyy hope that too, yet somehow, I have a bad feeling about this... :-/

Health regenerating overtime though doesn't look promising much.

Thank You.

I really need to re-read my first post, because I definitely thought I quoted Morrowind and Daggerfall as RPG classics to me, and also hinted at how disappointed I was in the turn that is taking Mass Effect franchise.

I can write 2 pages of what constitutes an RPG to me, yet I doubt I'd get much feedback. I thought the game comparison would make it clearer to all on a TES forum, but obviously not...

Has regenerating health been confirmed?

I really hope that is if you have an enchanted healing item equipped or some spell in effect else wise that is the gayest thing ever. I love Bethesda, I'm okay on the elder scrolls series (I've only played oblviion which I liked but it had its faults and Morrowind which was way better but I have it for the X-box and remembering everything i need to do or reading though a 200 page log is a bit of a drag). Come on devs don't make this another lame steam game.

If you want to know why Red Faction just got cut, it was because of stupid mainstreaming like this, regular players weren't interested and the veterans (myself included) passed since they made it like Dead Space. I really hope they are not doing this for the series and that there is so much more depth that simplification of a few things (like the log in oblivion) is required and that the real game will blow our minds like Morrowind does.

Health regenerates slowly over time according to Pete Hines, tho food and other items will restore it as in previous games.

oh no!!! i will cancel my pre-order right away!!! :rolleyes:



sorry! my bad! forgot you quoted those games so my apologies!
as much as i loved MW, i loved Oblivion a LOT more, so best thing to do is just give Skyrim a chance, you might hate it but then again you might love it and why are a lot of people upset about the (yet unconfirmed) health regen? i doubt it will be Halo/COD style and be back to full health in 10 secs, (maybe on easy) and on hard mode it might be off or have option to switch it off!
this might be to make the game more accessible to a wider audience or make it a tad easier for those not used to this style of game, which i am all for IF there is an option to make it both harder and easier
at the end of the day, Beth are a business and ofc they want to make money and have a GOTY at the same time, and by making their games more accessible to a wider audience is a smart move!

By your definition I think there are only a handful of video game RPGs ever created. At the very least, your definition means the vast majority of "RPGs" were not true RPGs. It was a valid request based on that fact alone; I was not dodging the question. Personally, my definition of RPG relies more on the depth of character progression than anything else. Skyrim will have a more deep character progression system than at least more than half of all RPGs I can think of off the top of my head.

Anyway, I think the biggest four differences between Morrowind and Oblivion's systems are the combat systems, number of skills, variety of items, and number of apparel slots.

Morrowind's dice roll accuracy combat system was simply atrocious for a visual medium. It was acceptable in 2002 but really needed a huge overhaul as the years passed. Oblivion's combat was in no way perfect but still much better than Morrowind's. It wasn't as close to a table top RPG, but for a video game that's a good thing.

The skill drop between Morrowind and Oblivion was done for a bad reason: to arbitrarily make each attribute govern three skills. There was no real reason to do this, other than to artificially make the system seem tidy. Skyrim drops a few more skills, but I don't see this as being for as bad of a reason as Oblivion. I like a nested skill/subskill approach, and Skyrim's skill/perk system is a take on this. It's not perfect and I might have done it differently if I had a large team of employees working for me. Anyway, bringing the number of skills up to Daggerfall levels would have been one of the worst choices possible; I've been playing video games for 20 years and I find it a pain in the ass to make a character in Daggerfall. The average and even many hardcoe gamers do not want to take hours before they can actually play a game, especially if they quickly (or even worse slowly) find out they made some bad choices and can't correct them without a complete restart.

The item variety drop was a major disappointment. Things felt too organized in Oblivion. I can't say I like it, but I bet BGS's modelers and animators would have some interesting comments on the subject. I'd really like to see some more weapon choices, but I can't say that adding spears, crossbows, throwing weapons, etc would make the game more of an rpg. Anyway, many "true" RPGs limit you to a very small, linearly progressing set of equipment and skills based on your class. Skyrim doesn't.

The armor slot thing is related to the item variety, and it's probably the worst of all four because it could have been resolved by simply putting several extra armor slots into the system and letting the modders have at it. When modders have to use the ring slot to separate pauldrons/cuirasses, something's wrong. Pretty sure FO3 had a bunch of unused slots, so I have hope for this one.

As far as choices/consequences, I can't really think of a whole lot in Morrowind. Obviously you could only join a maximum of two houses, and that was the biggest area of the game where choices mattered. You were exempted from completing a small handful of vampire clan missions depending on which you joined. And if you didn't join thieves/fighter guild fast enough you could be prevented from ever joining one of them. This isn't even as much choice/consequence as in those dreaded, terrible, dastardly, evil, atrocious, shudder-inducing, vile, casual friendly Bioware games. Point aside, I like this aspect of RPGs, but it really limits freedom more than enhancing it.

There is no way that a single damn variable that can easily be changed (ie health regeneration) will prevent Skyrim from being an RPG. That's just ridiculous.

Anyway, go play Oblivion with FCOM, deadly reflex, and a good set of quest mods. Then come back and tell me it's not a proper RPG. Modded Oblivion is even better than vanilla Morrowind, and that is the beauty of Bethesda's games

I hate threads like this. Just wait till it comes out, ask your friends (that actually bought it), and then make your own decision about whether or not to play it. OR just decide not to play it either way. Stop complaining months before its even released because WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING! :banghead:

Okay, bedtime. :snoring:

With the addition of perks, having to chose health, magica or stamina(+ a pre-set health amount) each lvl so you can't maximize all of them, having a feature in the game that tailor itself to your playstyle and the standard ES open world I say that Skyrim seems to be more complex than Morrowind, but more userfriendly.
I believe that when people state that Skyrim will be to mainstream or dummed down they are suffering a severe case of nostalgia towards a time when RPGs never got mainstream attention.

Why would health regenerating over time stop it being an RPG? I can think of loads of really full on RPG's in which health regenereates over time. Even in Morrowind if you 'rested' you regained health, which surely means that it regenerated of time, with no bandages/ magic being applied.

Play Book Of Eschalon and tell me that game isn't an RPG because of the health regen thing.

It looks like anybody that uses such a small, insignificant detail as a reason to slate the game either has already made their mind up that they don't want to buy it, or are just trying to fit in with the 'cool' crowd that hates everything.

There are plenty of reasons to debate whether Skyrim has moved towards or away from being an RPG, regenerating health, however has nothing to do with it.

Pretty much this.

It would be cool if skyrim was like LA NOIRE ( just regarding the fashions in the game, i dont wanna be a detective dovakhin)

Hows about we all just shut up until the game is released. :biggrin:

If you think Daggerfall is the best rpg and game out of the elder scrolls series then you should go and die in a hole. :verymad:

Ok quick thing about the health regen; it sorta makes sense only if it's really slow. Imagine you're in a fight and you get cut and some blood spills out. Assuming the wound doesn't get infected, the blood around your wound will clot and you will slowly heal over time. See? Simple explanation (although it should be EXTREMELY slow)

deathcoffee pretty much said everything I was going to say. So, +1 to you, friend. :foodndrink:

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: Each main TES game so far has re-invented the wheel so to speak, removed a lot, added a lot. They are each stand-alone games only really connected through lore and setting. That is how we can get so many people championing the different games. Some preferred Daggerfall, some Morrowind, others Oblivion, and now we'll see Skyrim get its own flag-bearers. If you did not expect heavy changes in Skyrim, then I don't know what to tell you. I for one, will wait until the game is out before I judge it. Even then, if it fails to meet some of my standards, I'll still enjoy it for what it is. Then again, I'm a glass half full kind of person. :shrug:

Just going from what we know about Skyrim it seems to blend a lot of what I loved about previous games, fixes my major complaint with Oblivion - too much level scaling, and adds a whole bunch of other goodies on top. The only thing I'm actually disappointed about is less armor slots and no spell-making. If they can give me more customization in the end with crafting, variants, and more armor sets in general? Then I'm happy. As for spell-making, I can completely understand why they had to cut it to a degree. You can't have people combining frost and fire spells when they actually have effects now, instead of just cool looks.

Maybe it's time to re-evaluate the classical approach of pressing games into drawers and then complain when they don't fit. It was already stated, there isn't even a proper definition of what an RPG actually is or has to be. With an internet connection, we all have access to the same information about Skyrim, so we can form an own opinion about whether the game is "enough" RPG for us or not. Even if it won't get a mark for each point on our little checklists, I trust the game will be interesting, fun and deep enough to at least deserve a chance to stand on its own and prove worhty of being played.

RPG (Role Playing Game)RTS(Real Time Strategy)FPS(First Person Shooter) SandBox ,puzzler ,mystery
Skyrim fits in with all these ,elderscrolls is a gene in its own right

Free? Rather you are restricted to play a role; Else you are playing out of character. :shrug:

(And the beauty of a good RPG is that the various roles are actually different and the game plays different per each role; At least ideally.)

Of course Skyrim is not going to be an RPG.
The RPG genre is dead.
When people seriously insist that games like mass effect or fable are RPG's, well, then the RPG is dead and buried.
It might become a very enjoyable action/ adventure though.
We will see.

Seconded.