Hey Lore-Masters.

I've been learning a lot recently, but on my way through Morrowind i'm having problems.

I've always thought of the Daedric Princes as deities, but lesser to the Aedra, though more active in the personal affairs of mortals and events. However, Morrowind has been doing its best to change that perspective, along with the Trial of Vivec, and Shivering Isles.

The Dunmer are biased towards the ALMSIVI, I understand that, but the general theme i've been getting is that their 'power' was considered equal to that of, if not superior to, the Daedric Princes. I'm certain that the 'anticipations' are complete bull. If anything the Tribunal are the ones who mimic certain Princes rather than the other way around. And yet, with the Trial of Vivec, we have a single part of the trio (granted two are dead, yet the same could have been thought of Vivec if you slew him, or his avatar as it seems it was) utterly humiliates and banishes a Daedric Prince.

One line in the Trial caught my attention: "The discussion of the Mad God and the Last Living God is interesting to observe."

Could this perhaps indicate thats it's less a matter of a member of the Tribunal overcoming a DP, but more simply Vivec being Vivec? He doesn mention CHIM, which from these forums seems to indicate that he had pretty much become a proper God.

Almalexia was capable of being slain by a mortal, albiet the Nerevarine. So it has to be something else. I can't imagine that Almalexia or Sotha Sil would have been able to do sudue or damage say Dagon or Sheogorath.

As for the Trial itself; what exacly are the indicated effects of what Vivec did to Azura? Talk of binding and banishing. Talk of her not being able to manifest anymore, yet she still able to 'care' about her Vampiric followers in Oblivion, and give the Star away. Not to mention as we well know more recently, Sul is one of her favored servants and she is passing him dreams and such.

The Shivering Isles changed my general view of Daedric Princes also, what with allt he theories having some merit (Haskil really being Sheo, unsubtle implication that the CoC is not the first, or even close to being so, mortal to 'mantle' Sheogorath, and that perhaps the cycle wasn't really broken) and boggle my mind. Couple that with the idea of Malacath being a devoured Trinimac the lines of how a Daedric Prince is created further blurs. On that note, I notice that Vivec 'eats' Azura in the Trial also.

Thoughts? I'm probobly rehashing old subjects, but there are -many- pages, and i'm not sure if the Infernal City was released last time it was discussed as i was not here.

Vivec has dies many times. being a god, he just came back to life with full retention of his memories. Vivec has defeated several daedra in the lore, especially his sermons, and it's no surprise; Lorkhan and Akatosh are the two biggest sentinite infinities in TES. 1/3 of Lorkhan is still a larger infinity than, say, mehrunes Dagon. Even without Chim, SOtha Sil and Almalexia beat off Dagon at the end of the first era.


So was jygglyag, and Cyrus the redguard defeated several daedra. he made it so that for a while she couldn't have an avatar in mundas. The real affect is that is showed Azura to be the [censored] she really is, and she got really pissed about it.


At TIL read lady N's compilation and evidence for the CoC being Arden Sul (or read mine if you want.) It'll help ou understand that the Coc did mantle Sheo; he was sheo in the first place. Time isn't linear outside of the dragon's power, and his power lies in mundas.