Hi.

Recently I've been looking at the TES timeline (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Third_Era) and if you look at the year 3E 433, you'll see all the events that happened in TES4. Within one year, the Oblivion crisis was ended, there was a new arch-mage of the mages guild, a new master of the fighters guild, a new grey fox for the thieves guild and a new listener for the dark brotherhood.

Is it official lore that the protagonist of the Oblivion crisis is also the head of all these guilds? If this is the case, the protagonist of Oblivion also became the replacement for Sheogorath, which means he was in a daedric realm and was unable to manage these four guilds.

Hopefully someone can clear this up for me. :grad:

Thanks!

It's canon that those events happened, I'd say. We just don't know if the CoC did them.

Yeah anyone could of became Those guild masters

Or maybe, it was Sheogorath who did them all!

See, this is what I don't understand.

We do know that the CoC did them because we've played the game, and the game didn't limit choices like in previous games. We've been able to stack up faction ranks in Oblivion, and it may have just been a development mistake, but we don't really have anything to support that :confused:

This.



Yes, the CoC did become the heads of all the guilds and whatnot, but like every other PC hero he will fade into memory, and then out of it, and will be lost forever except in the scrolls. At least in the CoC's case it makes sense that he is essentially gone from the world now that he is taking over for Sheo. So, obviously there would be new leaders appointed in the CoC's absence.

It could have been the CoC that did all those. It could also have been someone else. Whatever happens, the details of that history are lost by the time the next story comes around.

I'd say, canonically, the CoC completed the main quest (obviously) and was also part of the Dark Brotherhood, as Valen Dreth will recognize you when you go to kill him as being the person in the jail cell during the Emperor's escape. Any affiliation with other guilds is up to the player to determine.

That's a very good point about Valen Dreth. The fact that he recognises you proves that the champion at least does DB. That's pretty concrete proof.

I don't know... Valen Dreth died in the Imperial City dungeon, who and why probably falls into that tidbit of unknown history. Certainly, if the CoC was Dark Brotherhood, than he or she would be recognized by Dreth. But if the CoC wasn't a Dark Brotherhood member, than I figure it would have simply been another assassin, one Dreth wouldn't recognize. But the end result would be the same; Valen Dreth was murdered in a prison cell, nobody knows who did it, and those who do know probably aren't talking.

Nonsensical.

Although a theory, it is lacking. If we play the card that people would believe Valen Dreth, a crazed prisoner, who spend what... 10 years in prison.... What about the prison guards, the guard who brought in the CoC, the records of the CoC's crime, ect ect... I call it plot holes my friends.

I see it as an amusing way to criticize Western method of imprisonment ( Providing no support or treatment) in that a "damned" prisoner could become someone of value. I wish people would fix our system already haha!!

Off topic: I never understood how people could role-play as a Paladin or similar ideals. Technically, even if you say you didn't do it... you broke the law, which would break your oath. And furthermore, you still broke out of prison and didn't serve your time. However, my opinion is biased. I always saw Paladins as limited

As pertaining to the OP:

The assassination of the Emperor would cause great strain on each system. Necromancers could (and did rise) to challenge the Mage guild, since the Legion forces would be scattered. To hold public law, the fighter's guild would be kicked in, causing great stress. The older Guildmaster would most likely be replaced or cooperate with a younger member. The Dark Brotherhood story could progress with or without the CoC.

So? I guess everything is classified as "fate"

I don't understand your point. Are you saying we can't believe Valen Dreth? What ABOUT the prison guards, the guard who brought in the CoC, the records of the CoC's crime, etc? I don't think you expressed a complete thought.

Sorry ha.

I had to cut it short due to my dog ran out the door and ran 8 blocks away 8).

Umm, Yes. I am saying both. It was a sentence structure error, I think?

I am saying that very select few would believe Valen Dreth, because of the imprisonment and obviously not mentally all there.

Plus, even if an assassin were to kill Valen Dreth, which in the future, would prevent him from "exposing" the CoC, there still is the Prisoner Gaurds, ect ect who can come forth and recognize/ rumor about the hero. We just assume they don't. Or the Blades silence them. I guess not really a plot hole but incomplete story.

*Edit: It appears my English is against me today

I didn't mean to imply history would record the CoC as a member of the Dark Brotherhood, only that he/she, canonically, was a member, seeing as, in order to complete the DB faction questline (and we can assume all questlines are canon) the player must meet Valen Dreth, who recognizes them. I imagine virtually no one in Tamriel would know the CoC was a DB member.

As far as books and references to the CoC in future TES games, I'd expect no mention of any actions or affiliations the CoC had outside of stopping the Oblivion Crisis.

Where multiple possibilities are in play (as they are here), what happens is conflicting accounts and rumours. No one will even know what race he/she was, nevermind what Guilds they joined.

I wouldn't put too much weight on it, simply because I haven't seen anything that really confirms a lot of what that UESP article says.


Think of it this way; the Emperor himself basically pardoned you and encouraged you to follow.

There is no evidence that our characters broke the law. We might easily have been framed. It might be a case of mistaken identity. We might even have been planted there by Jauffre or some other high-placed person to intercept the Emperor on his way out. There are many reasons why our characters might be in that cell that night that do not involve our characters breaking the law.





Again, no. We do not break out of prison. We do not "escape." We are set free. It's more than that, even. We are aided by the Blades. Baurus tells us how to get out of the sewers. He tells us how to reach Jauffre. The Emperor himself asks us to leave and take the amulet to Jauffre.

Ah. Thanks. I see it could work that way.... BUT in a case of a paladin (If this is what warranted your post), even if you were not guilty, the system you fight for found you guilty. Therefore under code, you would have to serve your sentence. But Emperor's word is the law I suppose. However, what happens if the Order (if we call it that) deems the Emperor corrupt? I just never really liked Paladins. In WoW, I was always a free thinking Priest

I guess it is just a bunch of "if" questions then. Maybe I should move this to another topic?

However, I would argue on the planting. It would require foresight into the assassination of the Emperor wouldn't it? Plus why wouldn't they give the CoC better equipments haha. Here, we trust you in protecting the Emperor with your ragged shirt, pants, and hands 8).

That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard all day.

The Elder Scrolls games are all about going wherever you want, and doing whatever you want. In Oblivion, that starts with the assassination of the Emperor. After that, you do what you want. You can join the Dark Brotherhood. Valen Dreth recognized you because you were in the prison at the beginning. This does not mean the Champion at least joined the Brotherhood. This means that in THIS particular world, the prisoner became a member of the Dark Brotherhood. Of course, you may have been a member of the Brotherhood and other guilds, or have also become the Champion. It by no means is assurance that the Champion was in the Brotherhood. They may have been.

To avoid this specific question, which would inevitably be brought up, Bethesda has it so that the heroes are more or less forgotten, or at least poorly documented. This is so the Champion, and the heroes before him/her are exactly what the player chooses. In short, it is entirely up to you whether you want to believe the Champion was a member of certain guilds, or mantled Sheogorath, or whatever, because it does not matter and has no adverse effects anywhere else.