One thing that bugs me with FNV is that all of the guns basically have an unlimited range. If you can see it, you can shoot it. Sure, spread makes some weapons less effective at long range - but if you shoot enough eventually you will land a shot.

To make matters worse the poor AI has zero chance to detect you at long ranges. So you can basically sit out at a distance and fire away while the AI just stands there.

I think it would make the game a lot more interesting if guns also had a hard range limit. No long range marksmen sniper shots with a 357 Pistol! Instead guns that use pistol rounds like the 357, 44, 9mm would require the player to get a lot closer before they have a chance to hit. Certainitly within the range that the AI has a chance to detect you! Rifle rounds like the 5.56 and 308 would have a larger range - but still not unlimited. Again though with in the range the AI has a chance to detect you. Only the Anti Material Rifle would have an unlimited range.

I think it would make the game a lot more exciting if you had to try and get closer to your target to land that sniper shot. Right now you can basically run along, see a target, crouch and sneak shot them with 0 chance of them finding you. Then stand up and run along.

Strangely, the weapon ranges are in the Geck, they just are all extremely long. Tested it and it works. So what do you guys think, should Obsidian have implemented weapon ranges?

No.

Range limit... no...


Parabolic model? Yes.

I believe the weapon ranges are longer than the projectile max ranges. The projectile itself ceases to exist in the game world at that point, so if the weapon range is longer than that, it doesn't really matter. I'm at work, so I can't check the geck, maybe I'll look around when I get home.

As for realistic ballistic models with drop and windage, the only way to do this is to make each projectile an object in the game world tagged for the physics engine to effect. When you've got the potential for all those physics objects, think of a firefight between a bunch of dudes all armed with automatic weapons. Every single projectile would have to be a physics object for the entire time it exists in the game world, which is quite a bit longer than you can even see an enemy. The current engine/hardware setup that most people would be using could not handle this kind of load. I talked to Josh about this once and that's basically the answer he gave. So until we get more powerful hardware and a more effecient engine, you're never going to see real ballistics. And never forget this is a RPG. The more of the combat we take away from character control, the less it becomes that.

Yes, I can understand why they dropped realistc bullet drops.

As for range though, dropping the projectile range will impact how far it goes. For instance dropping the range on the 357 rifle projectile to 1000 will make the cowboy repeater unable to hit any target over that range. The default value is 10,000 for every gun. Except 308 which is 50,000.

Edit: Just to put those distances in perspective 12,000 is the faresthest you can see a monster/npc. The farthest out a NPC/Monster can even possible detect you is 5,000 units and VATS kicks in at 4,000 units. So between 12,000 and 5,000 the player can basically take pot shots at a target with no worries of being discovered.

I vote for Iron Sights only, no crosshair, no compass, realistic bullet drops, insane explosives damage and proper blast radius, 1-shot kills.. Basically combat from Red Orchestra.

You just read my mind. :teehee:

Even the "max" ranges of sight in F:NV are actually very short for firearms in the real world. Take one of the longest shots in the game: hitting Aurelius of Phoenix at Cottonwood Cove from the Sniper's Nest (where the Gobi Campaign Scout Rifle is found). We calculated it out and that's under 200 yards, I think. Apparent distances are skewed in the engine because the field of view is 70 degrees by default.

I run a mod that does most of that. I turned it off recently to try a D.I.D. character and I couldn't stand it. But D.I.D. with it is pretty pointless as you die. A lot.

Hey thanks for responding! The problem with using real world ranges is the world space of FNV is a whole lot smaller then reality. Otherwise there is multiple towns, a city and everything else in just a couple of square miles! Not the hundreds of miles in reality.

But it is really for gameplay balance - the player just has a massive advantage over everything else in th Mojave because he does not have to pass any detection checks and can shoot anything he sees. It really is a lot of fun to sneak up on a target and shoot then at close range. But you then realize it is completely pointless - just sit out at long range and take pot shots. A lot quicker, easier and safer.

Realistic ballistic models are already possible, and are already being done in games (STALKER, for one) so I do not buy this argument. Maybe a limitation in their game engine, but not a limitation due to tech. Me, a human, can solve a parabolic equation to find the arc of a bullet.

I specifically stated that I meant the current game engine. That means gamebryo. I'm quite aware of other games that can model realistic ballistics. Gamebryo does things, like massive world spaces with tons and tons of interactive items that others can't. We need one that can handle the processing load of all that and better weapons mechanics.

-gunny out.

Bullet dip and maybe you could alter it with gun condition and gun skill.

Never have I actually seen an enemy off in the distance and thought "that should be too far to hit."

Pretty sure enemies always spawn within a reasonable range, rendering such a mechanic a moot point.

So, no one else finds Sniping super easy? A sniper in FNV needs only two things - a Low Spread Rifle and a high guns skill. Nothing else matters.

I watch Top Shot and watch those guys struggle to hit distant moving targets. I would say they have a 100 Guns skill! Plus, no one is shooting back at them. Here in FNV it is beyond easy. Most people say a Handgun is ineffective beyond 100 yards - yet here you can snipe a moving target with one for as far as you can see. In a wide open desert lake you can almost see for a mile - do you think you could hit the head of a moving target a mile out with a single shot. Consistently and without a spotter.

At least if guns had a range it would force the player to actually get a closer to his target. Not just pull out a Hunting Rifle and head shot em.

No one said sniping wasn't easy, but that doesn't make your suggestion a good one. It just means that AI needs to be greatly improved to react appropriately to sniping.

Range limit? No. Increase spread alot more on some guns, YES. I dont want to be able to hit a scorpion with .357 from a mile away.

Alas, there is no real way to do it. Encounters are too close together! If you use Josh example of Sniper Nest to Cotton Wood Cove being only 200 yards then you have a cave full of Fire Geckos plus a couple wandering around , several Ghouls, a full blow legion camp and a NCR camp all with in 200 yards of the Sniper nest. Cotton Wood Cove is probably only 400 yards long. If the AI had a chance to detect you at that range then all of them would come looking for you the instant you took a shot.

I know, I tried jacking up the detection range of the AI. You take one shot and everything around comes looking. Guess that is better then Vanillia where they also just wait to get killed.

Edit:

That was my other idea. However, you would be suprised how far out you can hit a target with a high spread weapon. Espeically since the AI just stands there. May take a couple of shots - but you will get em.

Here is what the effect of having bullet drop on fallout would be
1: It piss off most players
2: Laser weapons would be the favored sniping tools as naturally they'd have no effective drop.

I remember in Fallout 3 guns had shorter range limits, you could look down the scope of a sniper rifle be aimed directly at the target and miss. Because the range on the rifle was shorter then the visual on the scope.

Point 2 is what would make laser weapons more valuable... because right now, small guns are lasers too.

Or... we could include atmospheric effects on energy weapons. Between scattering and refracting, that could make them lots of fun.