Nirn Map discrepancies

Post » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:13 pm

Obviously they are there, and I know the reasons for them both in real life and in the lore. However, given the longitude and latitude lines on Redguard's "west Tamriel' map and Daggerfal'ls mage's guild globe, i thought i might be able to compile fuller maps of Tamriel into a globe. These are my results, as I thought they were interesting and someone else might.

First off, the base. The only map with 'normal' latidude and longitute markings is the west Tamriel map, shown below.
[img]http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n578/dontforgetthis6/Nirn%20Maps/tamriel_westmap.jpg[/img]

I clarified the numbers and drew lines connecting them, thus making the longitude/latidude grid. I highlighted distinct geographic features that the lines passed through so as to transfer them to the other maps: two points makes a line.

20oN: It passes under the slight peninsula at the meeting of the 'head' of the Summerset isles 'star', and than continues to go through the 2nd gulf south on the northwestern 'arm' of the star.

35oN: It passes through a the southern shore of a slight gulf next south of the larger gulf. It then continues to hit a penninsula on the other side of the Illiac right as it begins to just south.



35oE: It passes through the western peninsula of the northern head of the Summerset 'star.' It then follows the western shore of the large gulf in the Hammerfell side of the Illiac.

40oE: It passes along the western shore of the third bay east of Firsthold. It continues to go out the northernmost point of the large 'Hows bone' peninsula.

45oE: It passes along the eastern shore of the fourth Peninsuala east of where Hammerfell's northern border comes in an almost perfect line to Skyrim's. It also passes through the point south of Anvil.


First I replicated these lines onto the modern (oblivion-age) Tamriel world-map. The results weren't too pleasing;
[img]http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n578/dontforgetthis6/Nirn%20Maps/TamrielMap.jpg[/img]

After a little pondering I decided that this must be do to the maps not being contemporary to each other, and adjusting to the curvature of Nirn differently. Makes sense. So, I tried it with a contemporary (Arena-age) Tamriel world-map:
[img]http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n578/dontforgetthis6/Nirn%20Maps/Arena-Map.jpg[/img]

This turned out even worse: 40 at 45 east cross each other before the pole! Further, Sros M'kai is now directly on 40oE despite always being in the middle of two lines, (at like 37o, 37o)

While I was at it I highlighted the barley visible lines on the globe from Daggerfall, to see what was up.
[img]http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n578/dontforgetthis6/Nirn%20Maps/Screenshot2011-08-31at85932AM.png[/img]

These lines actually, albeit wishful thinking may be involved, line up with those on the Redguard map. However, due to the sketchy nature of this image, we cannot be sure of anything.



Some interesting notes:

-On the arena map, but in no other map, Valenwood sticks out south of Hammerfell.



- You would never be able to sail to Stros M'kai from anywhere if it moves around that much on maps in one decade



- The Arena map does NOT include many islands, Stirk being the main example



- The globe should include Yokuda.



http://s1140.photobucket.com/albums/n578/dontforgetthis6/Nirn%20Maps/
User avatar
Petr Jordy Zugar
 
Posts: 3497
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:10 pm

Post » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:43 am

If you bring the map into Google Earth as an image overlay you will have an appropriately curved surface to manipulate it on. Images can be rotated and stretched vertically and horizontally, but they can't be stretched in any other manner (say, expanding one length while leaving the opposite side untouched). We also don't know if Nirn is the same size as Earth, although in that case you can just ignore the default longitude and latitude lines.
User avatar
joannARRGH
 
Posts: 3431
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:09 am

Post » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:26 am

Also we don't know how the plant is tilted, so the equator may not be where you think it is. Also if it's tilted in an odd way that could further complicate things. Do we even know if it's round?
User avatar
R.I.P
 
Posts: 3370
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:11 pm

Post » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:38 pm

Also we don't know how the plant is tilted, so the equator may not be where you think it is. Also if it's tilted in an odd way that could further complicate things. Do we even know if it's round?

there is a globe and marked longitude lines. Yes it is round. MK has described it as "a FINITE ball of mass" and as such could be mapped in entirety. The equator would be at 0o north/south, regardless of the tilt.
User avatar
Anne marie
 
Posts: 3454
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:05 pm

Post » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:13 am

As far as anyone knows Yokuda sank into the seas dureing the first era, so why would it be on the globe?
User avatar
CArla HOlbert
 
Posts: 3342
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:35 pm

Post » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:59 pm

why? becase Yokuda is still there and there are still people living there. The continent was split up but there are still large portions of it around.
User avatar
mollypop
 
Posts: 3420
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:47 am

Post » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:57 pm

Another reason for the discrepancies between the Arena map and Oblivion map is the Arena map was created in 1994; the Oblivion one in 2006.

Bethesda overhauled the lore for Morrowind, creating more Tamriel history, updating the maps, and changing some of the cliched details.

New islands like Solstheim didn't even exist in lore until Bloodmoon.

Last, Nirn is Nirn, Earth is Earth. They are similar, but they aren't the same. Things won't always match perfectly.
User avatar
HARDHEAD
 
Posts: 3499
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:49 am

Post » Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:05 am

I can't help but to think that the lines on the Redguard map are a bit too straight. I've read somewhere that Tamriel is supposed to be about the size of Europe and with the portion of the landmass the Redguard map is showing some curvature in the meridian lines should be seen.
User avatar
Brian Newman
 
Posts: 3466
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:36 pm

Post » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:38 pm

The size of Europe thing is derived in part from those lines on the map, so if the lines are wrong so is the size. I doubt that Beth ever considered the size of Tamriel, and hence just plopped down some lines to make the map look proper.
User avatar
OTTO
 
Posts: 3367
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 6:22 pm

Post » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:24 pm

We also don't know if Nirn is the same size as Earth, although in that case you can just ignore the default longitude and latitude lines.


Actually those work on any planet. You do however also need to know the distance between 2 coordinates. Using the 100 miles between Red Mountain and Almelexia, Nirn is about the size of Mars.
User avatar
lilmissparty
 
Posts: 3469
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:51 pm

Post » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:06 am

isn't it 250 miles between red mountain and mournhold???

also, if somebody were to combine the western Tamriel map with the Oblivion-age Tamriel map, would it make sense for the longitude to remain perfectly straight throughout the map (degrees 15-75 E and 5-40 N)?

another question, how did ppl derive http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n578/dontforgetthis6/Nirn%20Maps/Screenshot2011-09-01at113955PM.png from http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n578/dontforgetthis6/Nirn%20Maps/Screenshot2011-09-01at112201PM.png

is http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n578/dontforgetthis6/Nirn%20Maps/Photoon2011-09-01at2350.jpg any better, being based off the formula in the description of http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n578/dontforgetthis6/Nirn%20Maps/Photoon2011-09-01at2220.jpg?
User avatar
Rachyroo
 
Posts: 3415
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:23 pm


Return to The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion