Could someone enlighten me to as the difference between a Dragon(Akaviri) and a Jill and why Akatosh has a thing for Dragons? I do know that the Jill are also known as Black Dragons but they are not the only type to be known working for Akatosh in his attempt to swallow the world. Have ordinary Dragons joined the Jill in their service to Akatosh?

The jills are the TES equivalent of angels.

Whether or not the black dragons are the same as Akaviri dragons, I am uncertain, but would like that clarified as well. I've seen that the wiki lists them as such, but have a hard time believing so because we've heard nothing of Akaviri involvement.

As far as I know this is the first time Dragon's have been associated with Alduin as his minions. Honestly it wouldn't make much sense for anything that valued life to join with Alduin, given he just wants to eat them in the end, and Dragon's were described as greedy creatures.

As far as I understand, the proper dragons that have existed in the past, like http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nafaalilargus and http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Skakmat were just ordinary creatures, perhaps with wide variation in their form (see the legend of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Fang_of_Haynekhtnamet).

Jills, on the other hand, are divine servants of Akatosh/Alduin and are referred to as "minute-menders"; they seem to have played some role correcting linear time after dragon-breaks. They "take on a suitably draconic form" in imitation of their master, Akatosh.
(Note that MK says that "jill" is an archaic term for a female dragon.)

Disregard the notion that "regular" dragons are Akaviri, it seems to be baseless. And keep in mind that the lore about "Red" and "Black" dragons comes from the unreliable source Mysterious Akavir, and should be treated with suspicion.
There's nothing I know of to suggest that Jills are "black dragons".

I don't know of very much concrete lore about dragons. Other than what I've mentioned, the only real info comes from "King Edward", which is as not only a fictional story in the context of TES, but it's also as outdated as lore can get.

Dragons and Jills are a largely unexplored branch of lore. We'll have to wait for Skyrim to learn anything really useful, and I wouldn't be surprised if it contradicts what we've got right now.

Hopefully someone else will be more useful in answering your questions...

As for why Akatosh is a dragon? Beats me.
My only idea is pure speculation and completely unfounded.

3) With Talos and the Sons of Talos removed, the Dragon will become ours to unbind. The world of mortals will be over. The Dragon will uncoil his hold on the stagnancy of linear time and move as Free Serpent again, moving through the Aether without measure or burden, spilling time along the innumerable roads we once travelled. And with that we will regain the mantle of the imperishable spirit.
Some people aren't that fond of mortal life.

I'm in the boat that thinks "dragons" are just lesser Aedra in general (unless I misunderstood the theory). Kyne's daughters told Nords about the Dragon Shouts, meaning that they speak the language of dragons, too. Also:

Ka Po' Tun is the "Tiger-Dragon's Empire". The cat-folk here are ruled by the divine Tosh Raka, the Tiger-Dragon. They are now a very great empire, stronger than Tsaesci (though not at sea). After the Serpent-Folk ate all the Men, they tried to eat all the Dragons. They managed to enslave the Red Dragons, but the black ones had fled to (then) Po Tun. A great war was raged, which left both the cats and the snakes weak, and the Dragons all dead. Since that time the cat-folk have tried to become the Dragons. Tosh Raka is the first to succeed. He is the largest Dragon in the world, orange and black, and he has very many new ideas.

If it follows english grammar, the dragons fled to "Dragon Empire" (Akavir?), meaning that the Dragon Empire became the "Tiger Dragon's Empire" later on. Perhaps the dragons became tigers, similar to how giants and "ancestors" became Men and Mer?

The only source we have for Skyrim's dragons being Jills is one, and it didn't quote Todd himself saying it.

1. Mythology often shows time as a serpent, hence dragon.
2. The name "Akatosh" derives from "also known as the Old Smaug himself," the online name of one of http://imperial-library.info/content/daggerfacts.


I'm thinking along the same lines, though more Ada/divines than Aedra. The likes of Nafi from Redguard are probably their offspring rather than actual divinities.

And this source would be which?

I recall you posting the theory somewhere in a much more organized way (which is where I got it), which is why I haven't called it my theory.



http://www.vg247.com/2011/04/18/dragonborn-again-bethesda-shows-skyrim-in-utah/

Did I? Do post if you find it, cause I can't remember Unless it was one of those post-announcement things where I ranted about dragons being giants being men.

That's certainly what I think about at least the Jills. My interpretation so far is that there's a distinction between Jills and "normal" dragons, though. I may be wrong.

As for Aka being a dragon, that mythological basis is my supposition as well. I was thinking along the lines of the Ouroboros and what-have-you.
But Aka isn't just a serpent, he's a winged serpent, which I think carries some interesting symbolical connotations with regards to Lorkhan and their duality.

I'd be interested to see this.

Thank you, SilentColossus.

I forget where you posted it. I do recall you saying dragons = giants, or something like that.

I'd class the creatures commonly known as dragons thusly:

1) Jill. The fully divine minute menders, dragon wife-daughters to Akatosh, with powers over time, including the ability to mend it.
2) Any other divinity, unaligned with Akatosh. Natchez has brought up an interesting theory on TIL that has "dragons" be equivalent to Cyrodiilic winged bulls (a.k.a. Morihaus) and Skyrim snow whales. I'd also throw giants in there as a mythical equivalency.
3) Non-divine dragons, the devolved offspring of Ada from the Dawn. Equivalent to men, mer, and beast.

By dragons = giants, you mean another type from those featured in the game? Just trying to keep things ordered in my head.

Giants as now mortal gods walking the earth back during the dawn. Ehlnofey. The guys who named the Dwemer Dwarf. I'd venture that the current Skyrim Giants are their mortal descendants.

Dug up the only relevant http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1156324-dragons-in-skyrim/page__st__20__p__16941354#entry16941354 of mine that mentioned both dragon and giant:



Sad I forgot about that, could have used it in half a hundred conversations since then.

Thank you very much, been a pleasure.

Yeah, that's it. I guess I combined it with the 500 Companion's MK posted (some dragon names in there), ancient Nordic worship of dragons, and Todd saying not all dragons want to destroy the world. And someone else (Hoon Ding, I believe) calling it ancestor worship.

This is where folks start creating confusion.

What is all this about "Winged Serpent"?

You were physically shown an avatar of Aka at the end of Oblivion. Aka manifests as a dragon period.

Even if you were thinking about the Yokudan version of Lorkhan, Sep, The word snake may refer to how they see Lorkhan's nature more than his being a serpent.

As far as we know, Lorkhan/Shor/Ysmir/Talos...all associated with dragons.

I do not agree that greybeards are dragons is any way. physical or not. They are men, born with a talent gifted to the Nords by Kyne

vilnii, what is a dragon but a snake with wings?