Yes, it's time...

Post » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:35 pm

Spears are just daggers with too much handle.

Here are a couple of reasons not to include them - all that reach is like an "I win" button for melee combat. And that goes both ways. Imagine an enemy poking you with a spear and you can't get close enough to hit back. Annoying.


Gotta agree with ya there. Spears sound like a great idea on paper, but it would make you a little too unreachable. Kilik from Soul Caliber anyone?
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Nick Tyler
 
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Post » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:18 am

get over it
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Jon O
 
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Post » Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:10 pm

if it helps in one of the vids where his flamthrowering from the hand a group of undead one of em is holding what looked like a 2 handed halberd like weapon
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Aliish Sheldonn
 
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Post » Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:06 pm

Stop with the stupid range argument. A two handed sword is just as long as a spear AND held at the END, not near the center. It might even outrange a spear because of the way it is held.

Also, we have two handed swords and daggers in the game. Should we take the former out because they out-range the latter?

Range isn't the issue here. If this combat system is worth anything, it surely can't be lacking a good way of gaining distance and getting closer, depending on character skill and such. With the massive budget Bethesda have and their obvious focus on combat, it'd be very disappointing if they wouldn't already account for different weapon length. The spear would not be an exception in any form.

The thrust animation [censored] isn't an acceptable argument either imo. It looks just as silly to slash THROUGH someone with a dagger as it would to stab through someone with a spear. Either the weapons interact with their target, in which case neither thrust nor slash will look weird, or they don't, in which case both will look equally weird.

"Spears aren't that important" is a silly argument, too. They're much much more important than swords, ESPECIALLY in a nordic-inspired setting. For both technological as well as cultural reasons.

"They didn't have time to add it" is, too, not a valid point. They had time to add silly dual wielding - they could've left that absolutely useless feature out (you can't even block in that mode ffs) and could've used that time to add in spears.

The only reason spears aren't in is because Bethesda don't give a damn and just add the most typical Hollywood-esque weapons; read axes and swords. And maybe a mace if we're lucky, though likely one that looks like an axe.
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Ells
 
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Post » Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:33 pm

screw spears... throwing darts is where is at.
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Theodore Walling
 
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Post » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:21 am

I don't get people's obsession with spears. I really don't. I never ever used them in Morrowind, and I would bet that most people complaining about them didn't either. People are just complaining for the hell of it :sadvaultboy:
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Carys
 
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Post » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:34 pm

Stop with the stupid range argument. A two handed sword is just as long as a spear AND held at the END, not near the center. It might even outrange a spear because of the way it is held.

Also, we have two handed swords and daggers in the game. Should we take the former out because they out-range the latter?

Range isn't the issue here. If this combat system is worth anything, it surely can't be lacking a good way of gaining distance and getting closer, depending on character skill and such. With the massive budget Bethesda have and their obvious focus on combat, it'd be very disappointing if they wouldn't already account for different weapon length. The spear would not be an exception in any form.

The thrust animation [censored] isn't an acceptable argument either imo. It looks just as silly to slash THROUGH someone with a dagger as it would to stab through someone with a spear. Either the weapons interact with their target, in which case neither thrust nor slash will look weird, or they don't, in which case both will look equally weird.

"Spears aren't that important" is a silly argument, too. They're much much more important than swords, ESPECIALLY in a nordic-inspired setting. For both technological as well as cultural reasons.

"They didn't have time to add it" is, too, not a valid point. They had time to add silly dual wielding - they could've left that absolutely useless feature out (you can't even block in that mode ffs) and could've used that time to add in spears.

The only reason spears aren't in is because Bethesda don't give a damn and just add the most typical Hollywood-esque weapons; read axes and swords. And maybe a mace if we're lucky, though likely one that looks like an axe.


snip

Spears were not held in the center but rather 4/5 of the way down and under the arm rather than on top in head-height (that was only throwing spears). They did have better range than most other melee weapons, but they weren't very effective in close combat against swords and shield or even 2-handers. Mostly used against cavalry, as soon as a spearman would get into close range they'd switch to a sword or mace. Spears would be effective against dragons, but I'd still rather have a big sword or a bow...

Beth didn't feel they could make spears work, simple as that. They could make dual-wielding work, so that's in...not spears. It's not that they said "We can't be bothered with spears, we want dual-wieldling instead"...that's not how it works.
Time is a VERY valid point...just because they didn't spend time on a feature you really like, doesn't make it any less valid.

Nords, namely vikings didn't use spears all that much. Swords and shields, sometimes axes with very small heads (not like the fantasy ones). Let me point out that spears are one of the most Hollywood-ish types of weapon and are among the few types that experts can't quite figure out. They are used in many Hollywood movies like Troy, LoTR, 300 etc. I live in Denmark, a Viking country, and we have this historical reenactment group of which I'm a member. We have access to all sorts of historical records and nowhere does it suggest that vikings used spears all that much.

Your point about daggers...erhm...you do know that most daggers are slash/thrust weapons right? It's not just a thrust weapon...why use a weapon that only has one type of attack?

All your points and reasons for wanting spears are really very personal to you and therefor not really good arguments in this kind of discussion. It doesn't help that you state facts that are just not true...
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joeK
 
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Post » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:21 pm

spears! :D
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u gone see
 
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Post » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:28 am

There will be no spears in the game. Im good with that :mohawk:
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Danii Brown
 
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Post » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:44 am

Spears are just daggers with too much handle.

Here are a couple of reasons not to include them - all that reach is like an "I win" button for melee combat. And that goes both ways. Imagine an enemy poking you with a spear and you can't get close enough to hit back. Annoying.


going by that logic... swords are just daggers with too much blade... warhammers are just maces with too much blunt... axes are just maces with too much blade... lets remove them all and leave only maces.

next, bows have FAR too much reach, and they can even kill in one hit if you're lucky... so thats like an "i win" button for combat in general, so lets remove those, too...

what are we left with?

maces for melee and staves for ranged.

now, i am being serious here, using this logic you provided... how does my suggestion sound to everyone? i really want some feedback to it, just to prove that putting down spears the way you guys do, for the reasons that you do, is not sensible in any way.
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maria Dwyer
 
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Post » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:47 pm

Spears are just daggers with too much handle.

Here are a couple of reasons not to include them - all that reach is like an "I win" button for melee combat. And that goes both ways. Imagine an enemy poking you with a spear and you can't get close enough to hit back. Annoying.

Here's a couple of reasons to include spears: Nords traditionally use spears for everything from hunting, fishing, to killing each other. Nords look weird without spears, seriously. Argonians traditionally use spears for everything from hunting, fishing, to pretty much killing each other too. Also, Argonians look weird without spears. It's true!
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Jade Payton
 
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Post » Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:56 pm

im still waiting for people to respond to my post... post #60, last post on the third page.

it seems after i used someone's twisted logic to erase 90% of the freedom and choices from the game, everyone stopped talking... :confused:

it was a serious post, because i see that kind of logic used far too often to put down spears... and i really dont understand the people who say those things, because it never makes any sense, no matter which way they word it.
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Causon-Chambers
 
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Post » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:38 am

Spearmen and pikeman existed in real battles and still got killed, so whats wrong with having it in a game?

The problem with having it in a game was that in a battle, to beat a spearman, you normally either knocked the spear aside or chopped off the spearhead - neither of which is possible with the creation engine. It would also take a lot of time to put in all the extra animations.
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~Sylvia~
 
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Post » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:41 pm

I miss my spear. :( An Argonian needs a spear.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b148/ActionDragon/Morrowind/Argonian.jpg

The reasons why spears aren't included:
- Not very popular (maces etc. aren't either, but see below)
- Would need new animations
- Work differently than other weapons so they'd need special care in balancing

Weapons like Maces aren't popular either, but they're included as they can use the same swing animations and balancing as Axes, Clubs etc.
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Luis Reyma
 
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Post » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:14 pm

Spears!? Not again. Why?
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Richard
 
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Post » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:15 pm

... for another "spear" thread! :teehee:
Haven't seen one in a few days now hehe

Then go back and find one you can add something of value to.
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Sophie Morrell
 
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