I would be happy if that was the only thing good for H2H. So do you think Khajiit's will be the race of choice to win in barfights?

:shrug: It just doesn't seem as cool if it were to use magic to me. But, like I said. I would be able to live with it. Sense in a fantasy world is debatable anyway. At the end of the day I just wish it were something. If it were up to me, it would be a pure combat skill. But I just wish it were in something. If it needs to be magic, so be it.



The damage may very well be static, with the khajiits getting a bonus to that static damage. So, ya. Khajiits will be the barfight champs simply because their claws are sharper than glass. If the damage is tied to stamina, then it just depends who put the most points into stamina. Either way you slice it though it goes against one of TES' slogans.

H2H was lame and boring and pathetic in MW and OB if they could not add new things to it then I'm glad it is gone AS A SKILL (cause its still in the game)

if they can really make it shine however (like some mods i had) then it will be great

So because you thought it was lame, boring, and pathetic it should be cut dispite the fact many others found it fun and challenging.

Sad part is that makes about as much sense as Beth's reasoning for trying to cut something that's physically attatched to the body.

Why use your hands when you have a sword? It's redundant!

Beth logic.

I agree. My point was more that there hasn't exactly been a hard, recurring consensus on where exactly hand-to-hand belongs, and so moving it into the magic category wouldn't exactly be flying in the face of precedence.

Personally, it comes down to what's more interesting too, but I'm on the other side of the issue. Wailing on a guy with your bare fists isn't exactly mind blowing. If they could implement some sort of grappling system, it'd help, but that's a possibility whether magic is integrated or not. I'd just like to see a greater degree of magical combat skills that offer a little more variety. Right now, we've destruction and conjuration. The latter is more combat by proxy, anyways. Magically imbued fist strike are more interesting to me than just putting on gloves with successively bigger spikes on them or something.

You know you can still punch people?

:teehee: not the point

Well if just punching people is okay, why don't we take away the skills for everything and just leave the weapons in game. That would go over well.

What? You'd still be able to slice people with swords.

You know that's not what people are disappointed about?

This.

Hand to hand had nothing more than just novelty value, they were hardly different from any other fighting style, even though it should've been.

Again, same as spears, they should've made it better, but they couldn't so it's not in.

So, they were hardly any different from any other fighting style, yet they were a novelty value ? Doesn't that make the other fighting styles a novelty value too ?

Also it is entirely possible in fantasy to take down a dragon with your bare hands, sure it is easier with a sword but it's still possible.

Just because something can be done with more ease one way it doesn't mean the other way should be cut out. And as I hear it the final stealth skill is actually going to be "Pickpocketing", doesn't anyone else feel that it would be better to have pickpocketing as a sub-skill of stealth and to have Hand-to-hand be an actual skill ?

Grandmaster Kane is not happy.

...They definitely could have improved it. If it worked in the Fallout's, then it would work with this engine, and they could have had perks going over all of the lore H2H stuff. From the bare knuckle brawling, to the Khajiit martial arts.

Lets not forget for all the "realism" fanatics, that there exist powerfull unarnmed sects in TES lore, who suprisingly use their fists for more than just barfights and can smash through armored foes such as detailed in the Oblivion book (in game book) Way of the Exposed Palm.


Either way I would have been HAPPY to include magic into enhancing Hand to Hand, as it would have destroyed ANY realism fanatics case against the combat style (against dragons as we constantly hear about). The blast of a fireball transfered through a fist would have more impact on a dragon then a swing of your mace.


The main issue is them leaving Hand to Hand out as a skill, and dropping hand to Hand weapons, and heres why=
1. With no Hand to Hand skill you will not be able to level based off of hand to hand, will require other skill use to level
2. With no H2H skill it will be MUCH harder to create MODs with perk trees for H2H (we will have to tie in to an existing skill)
3. With no H2H skill (and by virtue no Perks) H2H will be incredibly weak, and will not allow for players to "play as an unarmed monk" (how will they level anyway?)
4. It is EXTREMELY hard to make a mod that adds H2H weapons (using Oblivion as an example) and in all the years of Oblivion being out, it took years to add poisons to H2H, and still NO mod exists that lets you find and create enchantable unarmed weapons (an old mod only adds a few "pre enchanted" unarmed weapons).



I am mad because if they simply left it in the game (but as a skill which svcked) I and the modding community could easily improve it, that and it seems a waste considering all the progress hand to hand has made in Bethesda games. Does this mean in game lore books will be changed to describe these unarmed sects as bar fighting chumps instead of amazingly powerfull warriors?