Are the Argonians truly scum? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:12 pm

They use drugs to get in contact with the hist and also use another drug to "dream" and receive visions. They're savages because they have no honor. Not all Argonians are. But the majority of the tribal ones who live in Argonia are drug-addicted savages.

That one Hist was removed from its home and very likely tainted. Hell, even your dunmer friend of the Fighter's Guild acknowledges that the Hist is F'd in the A at this point.

The Hist in general, are the only reason why there are argonians, as their sap is absolutely vital for the argonians to grow up and be argonians, and for there to be livable land in Black Marsh. Also, it's hard to maintain and use modern equipment in Black Marsh, when just about all use of modern equipment tends to rust, break, or decompose very quickly (as noted in http://www.imperial-library.info/content/oblivion-argonian-account, and http://www.imperial-library.info/content/oblivion-armorers-challenge).

What you are spouting off may as well be http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-pig-children.

» Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:56 am

They use drugs to get in contact with the hist and also use another drug to "dream" and receive visions. They're savages because they have no honor. Not all Argonians are. But the majority of the tribal ones who live in Argonia are drug-addicted savages.

Um, no.

Really guys, I cant' believe these topics go on for 5 pages. Just because certain Argonians (/Dunmer/Cyrodil/etc.) are "scum" doesn't mean that the entire race (millions of individuals) are "scum." I can't believe we have to argue this. Don't make me go all post-colonial on you.

» Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:08 am

Byzantine I think you hit the nail on the head there, it was the situation I was really using and it devolved into something more. I don't agree nor support slavery, and was referring to a society that had been engrossed in slavery for so long, like our real life USA and the fictional Dunmer society. As for Spartacus, his actions spurred a great many others, his goals may have been to topple a corrupt Empire that relished in blood lust but it came at the price of a great many innocent people, not just slave owners, loosing their lives as well.

» Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:24 am

That one Hist was removed from its home and very likely tainted. Hell, even your dunmer friend of the Fighter's Guild acknowledges that the Hist is F'd in the A at this point.

I'm not talking about the Hist from Oblivion. But I'm stopping now because I don't feel like finding all the crap about them using drugs to "dream".

» Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:58 am

I'm not talking about the Hist from Oblivion. But I'm stopping now because I don't feel like finding all the crap about them using drugs to "dream".

What is this drug you speak of? The only drug abusing race I know, it is the khajiit.

» Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:40 pm

Really guys, I cant' believe these topics go on for 5 pages. Just because certain Argonians (/Dunmer/Cyrodil/etc.) are "scum" doesn't mean that the entire race (millions of individuals) are "scum." I can't believe we have to argue this. Don't make me go all post-colonial on you.

I think barely half of this discussion has actually been about the question raised in the opening post.

For example: I'm now going to ask you what you meant by "post-colonial." That's a weird 'threat'. Normally you'd say something like, "medieval." I suppose some of our dirtiest wars were post-colonial (the civil war, and WWI), so was that what you meant? Honestly, "post-colonial" sounds like a genre of poetry written by the children of colonial officials, who had difficulty integrating into British society after having been raised in the former colonies.

» Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:00 am

I think barely half of this discussion has actually been about the question raised in the opening post.

For example: I'm now going to ask you what you meant by "post-colonial." That's a weird 'threat'. Normally you'd say something like, "medieval." I suppose some of our dirtiest wars were post-colonial (the civil war, and WWI), so was that what you meant? Honestly, "post-colonial" sounds like a genre of poetry written by the children of colonial officials, who had difficulty integrating into British society after having been raised in the former colonies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postcolonialism

» Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:16 am

Huh. I think it might actually be very interesting to see you "go all post-colonial on" this subject. Both the general fan reaction, and the actual lore. Now that I think of it, I recall seeing an interesting thread in an ASoIaF forum that was about taking Post-Colonial critical theory to that series.

» Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:31 am

What is this drug you speak of? The only drug abusing race I know, it is the khajiit.

I cant think of the name at the moment, but I'm pretty sure it starts with a D. They use it to enter this state of surrealism where they "dream", from what I understand it's mostly a tribal thing.

» Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:04 pm

I cant think of the name at the moment, but I'm pretty sure it starts with a D. They use it to enter this state of surrealism where they "dream", from what I understand it's mostly a tribal thing.

Even if you're right, how in the world is this a criticism of them?

And how do you substantiate the claim that they're "savages" with "no honor"?

» Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:02 pm

This poll is scum.

» Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:46 pm

The title should be changed to 'Are the An-Xileel/Argonians of Black Marsh Scum?'. No you cannot judge a whole race but you can judge a society by it's actions.
And also, anyone who has ever cited slavery as an argument against Dumner is really in no position to oppose this argument.

In my opinion? The argonians may have been the nice mistreated underdogs in the past, but as people disregard more sinister actions from the past, surely we must also disregard the good? Regarding the lore we know, the argonians have clearly switched sides, formed up with the An-Xileel (it's not all about Hist puppetry, they're regarded as the only reason Black Marsh wasn't conquered in OB), and are now even more xenophobic than the Dumner (don't they consider argonians who had spend too long outside of Black Marsh as exiled?).

They look cool, but they'd look cooler as a pair of boots.

It's not contradictory because I said "many of the Dunmer" implying the ones specifically responsible for the slavery and such. I was not saying it was because they were Dunmer, but because of what those individuals did.

» Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:33 am

Calm down, Darya.

It wasn't really aimed at you Zeopard, it was aimed at people claiming the Dumner deserved what they got.
I like to think of it like this. Everyone in this series is going to be a hateful [censored] at some point, now it's ([politically correct to overly-sensitive people]most of [/politically correct to overly-sensitive people]) the Argonian's turn.

In essence it's all just a grand beautiful cycle of hate.

» Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:51 am

This really took on a life of its own huh?

My whole point of creating this poll and topic was to show people that the Dunmer didn't deserve what they got and that the Argonians (who i really liked before, though not as much as the Dunmer) have taken a turn for the worse. Not because the common Argonian is scum. But because their leaders are scum. Everything I have seen about the An-Xiheel makes me uneasy about them. But that's just my opinion.

» Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:03 pm

Even if you're right, how in the world is this a criticism of them?

And how do you substantiate the claim that they're "savages" with "no honor"?

They attacked the Dunmer after the Ministry fell and wiped out half of their population.

What would you think of a country that might have invaded Haiti after that big earthquake? You would call them dishonorable scum for kicking someone while they were down. Morrowind had just suffered a massive natural disaster and then the Argonians start a war at an attempt on genocide. They're no better than Hitler in my opinion.