So, I was just replaying Tribunal, and as I exited the Temple(and the game annoyingly paused for Azura's little speech while Gaenor and two ordinators hacked at my defenseless body) , and I listened to Azura, I couldn't but help notice that she drops a specific, but subtle hint to the Nerevarine, telling him that he should kill Vivec.

This seems somewhat petty and bloodthirsty to me. I mean, she just saw two of the tribunal dead, Almalexia and Sotha Sil. Sotha Sil was a pretty cool guy, but I doubt Azura cares. Vivec is also a pretty cool guy, and Azura is already bent on his murder with the Nerevarine has just killed his brother. Vivec has been pretty good to the Player Character, he gave him wraithguard, counsel, and more or less helped in whatever way he could, yet Azura still seems intent on manipulating the Nerevarine into killing Vivec.

Azura just keeps getting slimier and slimier to me, and I don't see how anyone could consider her as a sympathetic and positive force in the Mundus. A lot of people seem to forget that s/he is a daedric prince/ss and just as dangerous and murderous as Molag Bal or Dagon.

What are your opinions?

Yep. She's petty, vengeful, needy, demanding, manipulating, etc. She still can't get over the Dunmer not worshiping anymore and the Tribunal killing her pet, hence manipulates the Nerevarine into doing her will. People consider her positive because she's not as obviously destructive or negative as the other Daedra, and because she did serve as a sort of guardian angel in Morrowind.

Didn't Viviec go into her realm, assert his CHIM powers (a literally unthinkable offense before it happened) and then do something else to Azura? Vivec is the source of a lot of interesting ideas, but that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve a stabbing. Also, having her worshippers taken away isn't some minor thing. Vivec's crimes aren't petty, and so I think Azura is justified in her desire for revenge.

That was after she brought about the insanity and death of Ayem and Seht (his only family, in essence) and plotted to kill him as well. She was summoned to Nirn under the pretext of helping to damn Vivec, he then turned it around and rapped her in every sense of the word (the psychological and power-based ones being more important than the literal Muatra-to-the-face one).

By A&S, do you mean Alamexia & Sotha Sil? edit: As in, it happened after the events of tribunal?

Anyway, my opinion stays the same. While her drive for revenge is unproductive, its hardly unreasonable (/petty). The tribunal's offenses at / in / around red mountain were quite dire.

I have to agree that the more I look into her backround in the deeper lore, the more she seems petty and scheming to me. In all honesty, I think one of the reasons she was against the Tribunal's rise to godhood was just because she was jealous and didn't want to lose the dunmer (her most common worshipers) to three upstart mortal gods. In truth, the time of the Tribunal is seen as a golden age in Morrowind. While they were not perfect angels of justice and goodness, they certainly gave it a shot while they were alive/sane/in power. So again, it seems Azura's desire for vengeance is petty to me now.

Way back when I was first getting into lore and the lore-masters around these parts were talking of Azura in this manner, I used to think she ran a kind of "Paradise" like we see in Mankar's realm in Oblivion. On the surface it's Moonshadow; beautiful beyond comprehension. But underneath were horrific dungeons where her servants would torture what remained of a captive Dwemer race. This was of course before I learned what actually happened to the Dwemer. Though knowing what I know now, I don't really think Azura's the type for that sort of thing.

If I were to do a comparison with another medium, I'd say Azura is to Mehrunes Dagon as Professor Umbridge is to Lord Voldemort. Sorry I can't think of any other good anologies...

Yep. The events of the Trial take place sometime between Tribunal and Oblivion.

Not to rehash the trial, but were their crimes really that bad (or, for that matter, crimes)? They murdered Nerevar, yes, and broke their promise and used the tools, but they did it for the good of the nation, and their ascension heralded the start of 3k years of peace and prosperity for Morrowind. Azura had already cursed the entire Dunmer nation, and was no trying to eliminate the tribunal. She was akin to Almalexia, who could not deal with her loss of power and wanted to eliminate every competitor so that people would unconditionally love her [again].

She got what she had coming, imo, if only because Vivec's speech to her kicks inordinate amounts of ass.

Yeah, Azura is a real [censored]. A complete female dog.

OK, there's two very different sides of this issue. On the one hand, you have the side of the dunmer people. What Vivec and company did wasn't a crime against society (what the word crime usual means). However, it was a serious offense against Azura. She's not being petty for desiring revenge against the guys who stole most (/ a lot) of her worshippers, killed her champion (closest thing she had to a friend), et cetera. What the Tribunal did wasn't wrong, but it most certainly wronged Azura.

Could Azura simply be up to some grander scheme? It might be a way of writing it off, but Daedric Princes might sometimes act in mysterious ways, right?

I'm not sure if it fits in, but did Azura indirectly cause Landfall? In the novel, she does help out Sul in tracking down the floating city for his own revenge.

Just my 2c. It seems like an easy/lazy way to explain this is to say there are greater games afoot

The full extent of the daedra interests in nirn are based around their amusemant and entertainment, as well as their own personal interests. In this case, I believe Azura was acting on behalf of the latter, I think it was a petty and personal action on her part, rather than an overarching grand scheme. The Daedra aren't as powerful as one would think, the Dwemer openly mocked Azura and almost overcame her in their blasphemy. I think the only grand scheme that Azura had was stopping the dwemer, the rest is just wrapping things up/personal revenge.

And, she is also, and this is the main reason, pretty. Think about it. Molag Bal is a crocodile-headed [censored] hound. Mehrunes Dagon is a demonic-looking four armed whirlwind of annihilation. Azura is a petty, vengeance-obsessed curse-hurler. But she looks regal and beautiful, therefore people forget the evils she unleashes and only remembers that she is fair to look upon.

Although really, the ashen-skin is kind of a half-assed curse. Make them all look like intimidating badasses on one hand and, since they have an unusual skin and eye color, gain them legions of fans.