» Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:21 am Please continue your debate here:
My post wasn't directed at any particular person, just enclave haters, and they know who they are.
Sorry you didn't get my star wars anology, so allow me to explain.
First star wars movie, what we know as episode 4, death star contains vast members of the top brass. Oil rig fo 2 contains vast members of top brass. Luke blows up death star, all those peeps dead. Chosen one wipes out rig.
Roll credits. Now, based upon what you saw, did you know imperial army had a gargantuan fleet of star destroyers? Nope. Did you know the emperor was actually. A sith lord? Nope. Oh but wait, here comes sequel, the empire strikes back.
Now, many people all ticked off enclave came back in fo 3, stating reason that rig was destroyed, so enclave wiped out to nothing.
Some people, do not want enclave back in future titles, stating again rig, plus fo 3. Apparently people know everything about the enclave, their numbers, plans, and locations of bases and activity during the past 200 years.
When actually, this is all speculation. For all we know, chicago group was there from the get go, and not formed from enclave heading east. Who knows, until a game is made, and more lore discovered by gamers, we have no idea.
Nor do we have any idea of their numbers, which could be explained, from cloning, androids, baby vats, or who knows what mad experimentation.
I don't want enclave back as THE major enemy, but I want them back to as a faction we can interact with, maybe even help, similar to mojave bos. However, if they were one of say 4 major factions that we could either help or destroy them, I wouldn't complain either. The no enclave because they were all killed arguement is just plain ridiculous.
Sorry you didn't get my star wars anology, so allow me to explain.
First star wars movie, what we know as episode 4, death star contains vast members of the top brass. Oil rig fo 2 contains vast members of top brass. Luke blows up death star, all those peeps dead. Chosen one wipes out rig.
Roll credits. Now, based upon what you saw, did you know imperial army had a gargantuan fleet of star destroyers? Nope. Did you know the emperor was actually. A sith lord? Nope. Oh but wait, here comes sequel, the empire strikes back.
Now, many people all ticked off enclave came back in fo 3, stating reason that rig was destroyed, so enclave wiped out to nothing.
Some people, do not want enclave back in future titles, stating again rig, plus fo 3. Apparently people know everything about the enclave, their numbers, plans, and locations of bases and activity during the past 200 years.
When actually, this is all speculation. For all we know, chicago group was there from the get go, and not formed from enclave heading east. Who knows, until a game is made, and more lore discovered by gamers, we have no idea.
Nor do we have any idea of their numbers, which could be explained, from cloning, androids, baby vats, or who knows what mad experimentation.
I don't want enclave back as THE major enemy, but I want them back to as a faction we can interact with, maybe even help, similar to mojave bos. However, if they were one of say 4 major factions that we could either help or destroy them, I wouldn't complain either. The no enclave because they were all killed arguement is just plain ridiculous.
That isn't canon at all. The Fallout Bible isn't canon :thumbsup: . The games and their game guides make the Canon and trump the Fallout Bible. Fallout 2, Fallout 3 and New Vegas and their game guides tell us there are no world wide bases.
I love how people so diehard for the Enclave cling to that none-canon line in the Fallout Bible. How they want the Enclave to be back in every game and to be the "The Empire from Star Wars."
Chris Avellone has stated that the Bible should no longer be considered a source for canon. Bethesda calls the shots now. The bible only covers events of Fallout and Fallout 2 back when Interplay ran things. It does not include Tactics and more improtantly Fallout 3 and New Vegas, which make it clear that the Enclave were only on the Oil Rig and Navarro. That backs up Fallout 2 that told us that FACT.
"In my opinion, the Fallout Bible isn't something people should refer to anymore unless it's confirmed by Bethesda or within Fallout 3 onwards." - Chris Avellone
Bethesda has not confirmed that line about global bases, they in fact have condemned it. Having world wide bases breaks canon of Fallout 2, Fallout 3 and New Vegas and their guides.
Still this is a "suggestions thead" so you are free to aks for them back if you want.
I love how people so diehard for the Enclave cling to that none-canon line in the Fallout Bible. How they want the Enclave to be back in every game and to be the "The Empire from Star Wars."
Chris Avellone has stated that the Bible should no longer be considered a source for canon. Bethesda calls the shots now. The bible only covers events of Fallout and Fallout 2 back when Interplay ran things. It does not include Tactics and more improtantly Fallout 3 and New Vegas, which make it clear that the Enclave were only on the Oil Rig and Navarro. That backs up Fallout 2 that told us that FACT.
"In my opinion, the Fallout Bible isn't something people should refer to anymore unless it's confirmed by Bethesda or within Fallout 3 onwards." - Chris Avellone
Bethesda has not confirmed that line about global bases, they in fact have condemned it. Having world wide bases breaks canon of Fallout 2, Fallout 3 and New Vegas and their guides.
Still this is a "suggestions thead" so you are free to aks for them back if you want.
Nowhere has it specifically said this is the ONLY place the Enclave was. Nobody knew about Enclave presence in Chicago until fonv. Nowhere has it said Autumn and crew founded the base in Chicago on their way to Capital. Nowhere has it said number strength of said Chicago outpost. Could be four guys sitting around a campfire cooking up 5 day old mole rat, or 500.
They didn't mention Chicago in FO2, 3, game guides, but sooooo what? They did in fonv, and that is my point. Until it is proven in game, we do not know, and it is foolish to state one way or the other as FACT, when it is speculation.
I would say, as far as enclave spreading out globally, that is rather unlikely. But spreading out across the US, Canada, and maybe central and south America makes sense. In fact, it is stupid to think all enclave and prez went to rig before bombs dropped. Why? Because prez would be a primary target. Fact, chinese had spies in US, and all over DC. To think they couldn't have tracked movement of prez to an oil rig, and thus, fairly vulnerable target out in the pacific... meh. It is just not very tactful to place entire organization in one spot before potential nuclear war. Vaults are spread out all over, enclave would do the same, and in fact, prolly occupy a few.
They didn't mention Chicago in FO2, 3, game guides, but sooooo what? They did in fonv, and that is my point. Until it is proven in game, we do not know, and it is foolish to state one way or the other as FACT, when it is speculation.
I would say, as far as enclave spreading out globally, that is rather unlikely. But spreading out across the US, Canada, and maybe central and south America makes sense. In fact, it is stupid to think all enclave and prez went to rig before bombs dropped. Why? Because prez would be a primary target. Fact, chinese had spies in US, and all over DC. To think they couldn't have tracked movement of prez to an oil rig, and thus, fairly vulnerable target out in the pacific... meh. It is just not very tactful to place entire organization in one spot before potential nuclear war. Vaults are spread out all over, enclave would do the same, and in fact, prolly occupy a few.
Fallout 3 tells us there were no Enclave outside of Navarro and the Oil Rig just like Fallout 2 does. Chicago was most likely built by the Enclave on their way to DC.
Who am I to believe? Lets see. I can believe: Fallout 2, Bethesda's Fallout 3 and New Vegas approved by Bethesda, Chris Avellone, the author of the Fallout Bible and worked on Fallout 2 and New Vegas... Or you :rolleyes:
Edit: Also that part about the president going to the Oil Rig with the Enclave before the great war is also not canon. It is apart of that line about world wide bases. It isn't canon.
Who am I to believe? Lets see. I can believe: Fallout 2, Bethesda's Fallout 3 and New Vegas approved by Bethesda, Chris Avellone, the author of the Fallout Bible and worked on Fallout 2 and New Vegas... Or you :rolleyes:
Edit: Also that part about the president going to the Oil Rig with the Enclave before the great war is also not canon. It is apart of that line about world wide bases. It isn't canon.
Do you still not understand this?
THE ENCLAVE IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT, ONLY A FEW HIGHER UPS WERE IN THE ENCLAVE! So they would not have the numbers to spread out across two contients.
And the Oil Rig being their only base makes perfect sense, it had an air filter, it was fortified, and they could stay their in luxury as their new USA pulled itself from the ashes of nuclear war (well that was the plan anyway).
THE ENCLAVE IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT, ONLY A FEW HIGHER UPS WERE IN THE ENCLAVE! So they would not have the numbers to spread out across two contients.
And the Oil Rig being their only base makes perfect sense, it had an air filter, it was fortified, and they could stay their in luxury as their new USA pulled itself from the ashes of nuclear war (well that was the plan anyway).
Where did I say enclave was the entire government? How do you know enclave numbers pre-war? That is pure speculation. They were a very powerful shadow organization. Let's see, off the top of my head I would say they had infiltrated or were the power behind the strings of Poseidon, Vault-Tec, US military, US Government.
It not wise to move all your troops and leaders to one spot, especially if the military threat you are facing is nuclear weapons. A rig what, 150-200 miles in middle of ocean is not the most defensible position.
According to you guys, new factions should never exist, because they haven't been talked about in fo1,2,3, nv, or game guides, and you guys seem to act if it hasn't been mentioned it just can't be. You act like we know everything about enclave, when we don't know jack. One would be lucky to write a 5 page paper on the enclave, because they are, for the majority, a mystery.
Why were vaults spread out across the country, and some in canada? Hmmm?
It not wise to move all your troops and leaders to one spot, especially if the military threat you are facing is nuclear weapons. A rig what, 150-200 miles in middle of ocean is not the most defensible position.
According to you guys, new factions should never exist, because they haven't been talked about in fo1,2,3, nv, or game guides, and you guys seem to act if it hasn't been mentioned it just can't be. You act like we know everything about enclave, when we don't know jack. One would be lucky to write a 5 page paper on the enclave, because they are, for the majority, a mystery.
Why were vaults spread out across the country, and some in canada? Hmmm?
I have yet to see any line in game that says Enclave was one and all, every single person, at oil rig and navarro, and NOWHERE else. Just because they don't mention it, doesn't mean it can't exist.
And once again, pure speculation about chicago. You can say all you want it small group, most likely formed by autumn, and I can say main base, 50,000 troops with tanks, 10 liberty primes, super air force, and pre-war M&M for yummy snacks, and it hold as much water as your speculation.
And once again, pure speculation about chicago. You can say all you want it small group, most likely formed by autumn, and I can say main base, 50,000 troops with tanks, 10 liberty primes, super air force, and pre-war M&M for yummy snacks, and it hold as much water as your speculation.
