66 posts
• Page 3 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
Underwater and Swimming Animations Look Really Bad
» Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:43 pm
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David Chambers - Posts: 3333
- Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 4:30 am
» Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:59 am
That's starting to become a buzzword around here.
because its true.
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ShOrty - Posts: 3392
- Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:15 pm
» Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:15 am
Sort of like a cheap hoker?
Haha, As I read this I was listening to asian hoker - steal panther. Had to lol at that.
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Sarah Knight - Posts: 3416
- Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:02 am
» Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:41 am
If there's anything I've learned, it's to experience the game for yourself, because everyone's expectations are different.
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Klaire - Posts: 3405
- Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:56 am
» Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:49 am
Says the guy who complains about complainers.
At least I didn't make a thread about it. And if I did, there'd be more of a likely-hood that it'd make some sort of difference than any of the threads complaining about the game at this point in its development. Not too long ago these forums where (for the majority) pleasant to peruse. Once the pure joy of speculation and excitement was over, people just fell into a nasty habit of nay-saying, griping, and entitlement complexes. Maybe a few months after release it'll cool down a bit and I can actually read a thread or two without getting annoyed at the positive lack of appreciation towards the very games for which this forum even exists.
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Taylah Haines - Posts: 3439
- Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:10 am
» Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:28 pm
Except I rarely ever have any gripes about Skyrim. You're generalizing. I've given Bethesda a lot of money in the past five years; I'm allowed to give a few criticisms here and there about my favorite game franchise. How are my objections so much worse than yours about the lack of spell creation?
It differs here because (Pay attention, this part is important.) I don't go making threads complaining about anything. Really I just chose something that I may be a little tiffed about but really I don't care that much about no spell creation being in Skyrim. I was really just trying to make my post relate to most of the complainers out there by stating "Hey I'm a little upset about this but you don't see me making threads to complain about it because in reality it's no big deal" I probably should have just typed that in the first place. My bad.
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luis ortiz - Posts: 3355
- Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:21 pm
» Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:02 am
It has to be nigh-impossible to create a realistic underwater swimming animation!
As a person who's done some animating
Underwater:
1. You'd have to account for the natural bobbing/buoyancy of the human body.
2. You'd have to account for the fact that in the water we are no longer limited by gravity, nor do we have to worry about falling, which means a huge degree of freedom of movement, meaning there would have to be a whole new movement mechanic in which you'd spin accurately and turn towards wherever the camera was pointing.
3. People can swim upside-down, turned 90 degrees, from side to side, twisting and winding all over the place, etc.
4. Everyone has a very different style of swimming. I've been told that the way I twist and move around that I look pretty graceful in the water, as compared to a person who just powers through it. I even do dolphin kicks.
5. Getting hit underwater is much different than getting hit into the air, go farther, but it also hurts much less, the ragdoll would hypothetically have the arms and the legs go out opposite to the direction of movement, as would the whole body, unless there's a specific animation in which a person stayed rigid instead of going ragdoll.
Above Water:
1. See Above.
2. See Above.
3. See Above.
4. See Above.
5. People have different methods of swimming, in there's a specific Japanese style in which people nearly silently swim, and it was used for stealth. So if they're going to be going all-out they'd probably have to account for that.
Other things to consider:
There are no diving animations and a diving mechanic would require a whole new conditional formula to find out how deep the water is, how far you are above the water, if you could realistically make it, and how quick/slow to make the diving animation.
People slow down when entering water much quicker, but it isn't like Oblivion where you're right below the surface if you jump off something 20 feet above, if they're going to be going for all-out realism, they'd have to consider that.
Don't even get me started on how armor, clothing, and other things would be in the water, it'd be a nightmare to figure out buoyancy and how much something should way in-water compared to out of water. Hair, if given physics, would be a nightmare in water. (although, really, you'd just have to make it Zero-G and give it more rigidity at the roots to make it sort of "puff out").
Some weapons won't work in the water. You can't honestly say that you could murder somebody easily with a hammer underwater.
Weapons and Armor would make you sink if you lifted them above the water. Just a fact.
I could go on but I'm getting very bored.
As a person who's done some animating
Underwater:
1. You'd have to account for the natural bobbing/buoyancy of the human body.
2. You'd have to account for the fact that in the water we are no longer limited by gravity, nor do we have to worry about falling, which means a huge degree of freedom of movement, meaning there would have to be a whole new movement mechanic in which you'd spin accurately and turn towards wherever the camera was pointing.
3. People can swim upside-down, turned 90 degrees, from side to side, twisting and winding all over the place, etc.
4. Everyone has a very different style of swimming. I've been told that the way I twist and move around that I look pretty graceful in the water, as compared to a person who just powers through it. I even do dolphin kicks.
5. Getting hit underwater is much different than getting hit into the air, go farther, but it also hurts much less, the ragdoll would hypothetically have the arms and the legs go out opposite to the direction of movement, as would the whole body, unless there's a specific animation in which a person stayed rigid instead of going ragdoll.
Above Water:
1. See Above.
2. See Above.
3. See Above.
4. See Above.
5. People have different methods of swimming, in there's a specific Japanese style in which people nearly silently swim, and it was used for stealth. So if they're going to be going all-out they'd probably have to account for that.
Other things to consider:
There are no diving animations and a diving mechanic would require a whole new conditional formula to find out how deep the water is, how far you are above the water, if you could realistically make it, and how quick/slow to make the diving animation.
People slow down when entering water much quicker, but it isn't like Oblivion where you're right below the surface if you jump off something 20 feet above, if they're going to be going for all-out realism, they'd have to consider that.
Don't even get me started on how armor, clothing, and other things would be in the water, it'd be a nightmare to figure out buoyancy and how much something should way in-water compared to out of water. Hair, if given physics, would be a nightmare in water. (although, really, you'd just have to make it Zero-G and give it more rigidity at the roots to make it sort of "puff out").
Some weapons won't work in the water. You can't honestly say that you could murder somebody easily with a hammer underwater.
Weapons and Armor would make you sink if you lifted them above the water. Just a fact.
I could go on but I'm getting very bored.
All I wanted, personally, was a system where the body moved realistically and clipping was minimal. Don't care if it's a uniform style of swimming for everyone or if diving isn't in the game. Buoyancy isn't an issue to me either. Would be greatly appreciated in the future but not a necessity.
It differs here because (Pay attention, this part is important.) I don't go making threads complaining about anything. Really I just chose something that I may be a little tiffed about but really I don't care that much about no spell creation being in Skyrim. I was really just trying to make my post relate to most of the complainers out there by stating "Hey I'm a little upset about this but you don't see me making threads to complain about it because in reality it's no big deal" I probably should have just typed that in the first place. My bad.
Are threads that valuable to you? This is a place for discussion. If you don't like it, leave. It's that simple.
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Latisha Fry - Posts: 3399
- Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 6:42 am
» Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:59 pm
It has to be nigh-impossible to create a realistic underwater swimming animation!
As a person who's done some animating
Underwater:
1. You'd have to account for the natural bobbing/buoyancy of the human body.
2. You'd have to account for the fact that in the water we are no longer limited by gravity, nor do we have to worry about falling, which means a huge degree of freedom of movement, meaning there would have to be a whole new movement mechanic in which you'd spin accurately and turn towards wherever the camera was pointing.
3. People can swim upside-down, turned 90 degrees, from side to side, twisting and winding all over the place, etc.
4. Everyone has a very different style of swimming. I've been told that the way I twist and move around that I look pretty graceful in the water, as compared to a person who just powers through it. I even do dolphin kicks.
5. Getting hit underwater is much different than getting hit into the air, go farther, but it also hurts much less, the ragdoll would hypothetically have the arms and the legs go out opposite to the direction of movement, as would the whole body, unless there's a specific animation in which a person stayed rigid instead of going ragdoll.
Above Water:
1. See Above.
2. See Above.
3. See Above.
4. See Above.
5. People have different methods of swimming, in there's a specific Japanese style in which people nearly silently swim, and it was used for stealth. So if they're going to be going all-out they'd probably have to account for that.
Other things to consider:
There are no diving animations and a diving mechanic would require a whole new conditional formula to find out how deep the water is, how far you are above the water, if you could realistically make it, and how quick/slow to make the diving animation.
People slow down when entering water much quicker, but it isn't like Oblivion where you're right below the surface if you jump off something 20 feet above, if they're going to be going for all-out realism, they'd have to consider that.
Don't even get me started on how armor, clothing, and other things would be in the water, it'd be a nightmare to figure out buoyancy and how much something should way in-water compared to out of water. Hair, if given physics, would be a nightmare in water. (although, really, you'd just have to make it Zero-G and give it more rigidity at the roots to make it sort of "puff out").
Some weapons won't work in the water. You can't honestly say that you could murder somebody easily with a hammer underwater.
Weapons and Armor would make you sink if you lifted them above the water. Just a fact.
I could go on but I'm getting very bored.
As a person who's done some animating
Underwater:
1. You'd have to account for the natural bobbing/buoyancy of the human body.
2. You'd have to account for the fact that in the water we are no longer limited by gravity, nor do we have to worry about falling, which means a huge degree of freedom of movement, meaning there would have to be a whole new movement mechanic in which you'd spin accurately and turn towards wherever the camera was pointing.
3. People can swim upside-down, turned 90 degrees, from side to side, twisting and winding all over the place, etc.
4. Everyone has a very different style of swimming. I've been told that the way I twist and move around that I look pretty graceful in the water, as compared to a person who just powers through it. I even do dolphin kicks.
5. Getting hit underwater is much different than getting hit into the air, go farther, but it also hurts much less, the ragdoll would hypothetically have the arms and the legs go out opposite to the direction of movement, as would the whole body, unless there's a specific animation in which a person stayed rigid instead of going ragdoll.
Above Water:
1. See Above.
2. See Above.
3. See Above.
4. See Above.
5. People have different methods of swimming, in there's a specific Japanese style in which people nearly silently swim, and it was used for stealth. So if they're going to be going all-out they'd probably have to account for that.
Other things to consider:
There are no diving animations and a diving mechanic would require a whole new conditional formula to find out how deep the water is, how far you are above the water, if you could realistically make it, and how quick/slow to make the diving animation.
People slow down when entering water much quicker, but it isn't like Oblivion where you're right below the surface if you jump off something 20 feet above, if they're going to be going for all-out realism, they'd have to consider that.
Don't even get me started on how armor, clothing, and other things would be in the water, it'd be a nightmare to figure out buoyancy and how much something should way in-water compared to out of water. Hair, if given physics, would be a nightmare in water. (although, really, you'd just have to make it Zero-G and give it more rigidity at the roots to make it sort of "puff out").
Some weapons won't work in the water. You can't honestly say that you could murder somebody easily with a hammer underwater.
Weapons and Armor would make you sink if you lifted them above the water. Just a fact.
I could go on but I'm getting very bored.
None of that matters... They just need to make a better swimming animation that's all, like tons of other games have. Not some ultra realistic animation that would cost tons and be far far ahead of every game in existence.
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Luis Longoria - Posts: 3323
- Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:21 am
» Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:21 am
If there's anything I've learned, it's to experience the game for yourself, because everyone's expectations are different.
Yup, some people like the swimming. I just wish someone would hurry up and tell me where i can see it myself -_-
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Lindsay Dunn - Posts: 3247
- Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:34 am
» Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:58 am
Ok so every person who's been to a hands-on gaming convention and got to see these two things have never had anything good to say about them. They've been described as "worse than Fallout" as well as "8/10 on the ugly meter." I too have seen swimming in some PAX footage and I couldn't agree more. Why have Bethesda ignored such a big part of their game? We know they've added subaquatic dungeons and puzzles so what's the deal with this? It seems to me like they've taken the same system from Oblivion and done little to nothing to improve it. This is not that hard a mechanic to work out yet it appears as if it has been given barely any attention. Every animation I've seen so far looks great except for this one. This one is just down right horrible. Didn't like it five years ago; absolutely hate it now.
Here's just a quote on how going underwater is from one of our fellow forum members:
Here's just a quote on how going underwater is from one of our fellow forum members:
Who cares?
If you play in first person (like you should) you won't see the crappy swimming animations.
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Lori Joe - Posts: 3539
- Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:10 am
» Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:57 am
Me. Always.
One of the very, very few. Guess it's tough luck on you. :shrug:
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Daniel Lozano - Posts: 3452
- Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:42 am
» Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:32 am
This thread reminds me of this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=777bMtgoLqw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=777bMtgoLqw
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Harry-James Payne - Posts: 3464
- Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 6:58 am
» Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:08 am
If the swimming animations look bad now then all we can hope is for Bethesda to do better in the next game.
I mean it's so close to launch now that I see it as highly unlikely that such 'base animations' will be changed.
I mean it's so close to launch now that I see it as highly unlikely that such 'base animations' will be changed.
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Ymani Hood - Posts: 3514
- Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:22 am
» Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:35 pm
As long as the animations aren't terrible I'm quite happy. Face it, they can;t be worse than Oblivion's which weren't really THAT bad. Also you should think about how much time you will actually be spending underwater in relation to how much time you will be spending on land before you start making a big deal about swimming animations then add the length of time you will be spending underwater in 3rd person.
Maybe you might swim underwater in 3rd person all the time, OP, but the majority of people here probably don't seeing as how the center of the screen is blocked by your character.
Now for the equation. Given the fact that all of the races but one cannot breathe underwater most of your time will be spent on land. That is unarguable so don't even try. Sure there are more sources of water but that doesn't really factor into more uses of swimming. I'm sure most will use bridges or swim across deeper rivers along the surface to get back on land. More evidence of how little you will be seeing the swim anims are MOSTLY EVERYTHING is on land. Dungeons, towns, NPC's, the questlines, etc. are on land. Sure there may be a little excursion underwater in a dungeon or on a quest but in relation to how much of that quest is spent on land is minute at most.
If you need all of this as numbers then here you go: 95% of your time is on land the other 5% should be in water. That percent for the underwater part was very gratuitous it should probably be about 2% but I figured I'd humor you.
Rundown:
On land is where most of the game content lies with the exclusion of things like sunken treasure and seaborne creatures.
In water is where you will occaisionally be where a very very small minority of game content lies.
So basically, you won't be seeing a LOT of the swimming animation unless you are argonian and don't like to be on land or use much of the games content that mostly lies on land. That is the smallest of minorities in this community. I have no proof except that it's common sense which should be proof enough.
Maybe you might swim underwater in 3rd person all the time, OP, but the majority of people here probably don't seeing as how the center of the screen is blocked by your character.
Now for the equation. Given the fact that all of the races but one cannot breathe underwater most of your time will be spent on land. That is unarguable so don't even try. Sure there are more sources of water but that doesn't really factor into more uses of swimming. I'm sure most will use bridges or swim across deeper rivers along the surface to get back on land. More evidence of how little you will be seeing the swim anims are MOSTLY EVERYTHING is on land. Dungeons, towns, NPC's, the questlines, etc. are on land. Sure there may be a little excursion underwater in a dungeon or on a quest but in relation to how much of that quest is spent on land is minute at most.
If you need all of this as numbers then here you go: 95% of your time is on land the other 5% should be in water. That percent for the underwater part was very gratuitous it should probably be about 2% but I figured I'd humor you.
Rundown:
On land is where most of the game content lies with the exclusion of things like sunken treasure and seaborne creatures.
In water is where you will occaisionally be where a very very small minority of game content lies.
So basically, you won't be seeing a LOT of the swimming animation unless you are argonian and don't like to be on land or use much of the games content that mostly lies on land. That is the smallest of minorities in this community. I have no proof except that it's common sense which should be proof enough.
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Jaylene Brower - Posts: 3347
- Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:24 pm
» Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:09 am
Who cares?
If you play in first person (like you should) you won't see the crappy swimming animations.
If you play in first person (like you should) you won't see the crappy swimming animations.
lol.
Why do people keep asking "who cares?" when it's evident by the simple existence of this thread that people do care?
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Ezekiel Macallister - Posts: 3493
- Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:08 pm
» Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:54 am
Yup, some people like the swimming. I just wish someone would hurry up and tell me where i can see it myself -_-
I would direct you but I'm not allowed to post PAX footage.
Who cares?
If you play in first person (like you should) you won't see the crappy swimming animations.
If you play in first person (like you should) you won't see the crappy swimming animations.
Obviously, I care. There is no certain way the game should be played. If it was meant to be played in first person for all players, there would be no third person option.
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Austin Suggs - Posts: 3358
- Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:35 pm
66 posts
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