I took Oblivion damage values for all quality of daggers and longsword and applied the damage multiplier for sneak attacks. Please note this does not include any other multipliers such as strength (not in Skyrim anyways or fatigue).

[img]http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/tableyk.jpg/[/img]

................dagger.......longsword..dmg ratio...snedagger..snesword..dmg ratio..overall ratio
iron...........5..............10.................0.500...........15..................6.................2.5.............1.250
fine iron.....6..............11.................0.545...........15..................6.................2.5.............1.364
steel.........7..............12.................0.583...........15..................6.................2.5.............1.458
fine steel...8..............13.................0.615...........15..................6.................2.5.............1.538
silver.........9..............14.................0.643...........15..................6.................2.5.............1.607
dwarven.....11............16.................0.688...........15..................6.................2.5.............1.719
elven.........13............18.................0.722...........15..................6.................2.5.............1.806
glass........15.............20.................0.750...........15.................6..................2.5.............1.875
ebony.......17.............22.................0.773...........15.................6..................2.5.............1.932
daedric.....19.............24.................0.792...........15..................6.................2.5..............1.979

As you can see, if the base weapon ratings for daggers are the same in Skyrim as they are in Oblivion, there isn't much difference in damage potential at first. But it starts getting higher the better the weapon and maxes out to about twice as much damage potentail for that first hit.

Plus, if you can get two single sneak dagger attacks in for one longsword attack, that is potentially ~4 as much damage {(19*15*2)/(24*6)=3.958}. I'm unsure how a single dual wielding attack would factor in. This is assuming just a single dagger vs a single longsword.

It was something I was pondering yesterday after I saw Sam's perk/race post. This should gives us assassins and thieves something to chew on for a bit.

PS If anyone has any good data on actual Skyrim weapon ratings, let me know. I'll add a SkyrimWR*SkyrimSneak damage table as well.

EDIT: Added a link to the table since the text isn't displaying well.
EDIT#2: Added in periods to make text table more legible.

That svcks a lot, daggers are pretty much useless now.

And you base that on...?

I heard that sneak attacks do far more damage WITH daggers! :rolleyes:

i starting to wonder u r a troll,all your post are negative and dont make sense at all

There is a 15x (!!!!!!!!!!!!!) damage perk (when sneaking) for daggers.........so how they can " svck" ?

The dagger perk is at the end of the tree so logically it must do more damage.

Except for stealth-based characters, who are usually the types to make use of them.

If your coming out equal with a sneak attack using a dagger and a long sword, that bodes very well for the dagger. Considering its a much lighter and quicker weapon.

I don't know about useless. 1.250x more damage is still pretty nice. It's definitely an improvement over oblivion where there was no real reason beyond roleplaying to use a dagger.

Plus if you can get in two dagger sneak attacks for every 1 longsword sneak attack? 2.5x to 4x as much damage for that initial attack is awesome imo.

And I think Magatsu makes a good point, that doesn't take in account the dagger's speed and weight for those of us with very low encumbrance.

True indeed!

Uh, considering that swords get a gazillion bonuses from perks and do roughly the same sneak attack damage with the one-handed perks, it really is pointless to focus on a dagger.

Math isn't your strong suit, is it?

Uh, if you are noticed after the first blow, what is the advantage of having a fast weapon? Sneak attacks are supposed to be deadly first strikes, not something to rely on during a whole battle.

The problem is this: longswords benefit from the +20% damage perk (5 ranks) in the one-handed skill tree, daggers do not. So you'd have to double the weapon damage for swords.
Which means you end up with an overall ratio of 0.989 for the highest level weapons. Which makes swords, maces and axes equally viable for sneak attacks as daggers. However, daggers are pretty much useless for everything else.

Enlighten me with your wisdom, math genius.

Read.

The.

O.

P.

I'm a genius.

Many of my posts are positive, just because I do not agree with every decision it doesn't mean that I am a troll.

Just curious, how do we know that the +20% dmg perk doesn't apply to daggers? Wouldn't it apply equally to anything 1H?

Didn't I say in that previous post to factor in longsword perks? Yes I did. I guess reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it?

It is a sword perk, not a dagger perk. There are exclusive perks for maces and axes too. And it's a 5 rank bonus, so it effectively doubles your danage when maxed.

Edit: Not to mention the critical bonus

What about the fact you need to fill two skills to get as much out of sneak attacks with sword/mace/axes than for daggers which get the same effect only mastering the Stealth skill?

Besides, any argument comparing Skyrim weapon effectiveness that mixes in Skyrim perk effects with Oblivion base weapon damages is flawed to begin with.

The dagger perk is the last one of the sneak tree, which means that it requires many other perks to become available. The sword ones aren't far into the trees. Perhaps it would take a few more perks to get a sword to be as effective, but honestly, you get a weapon that is just as reliable for sneak attacks and combat, which is much more of a bonus.