One can not deny that one of the biggest strengths of the Elder Scrolls lies within exploring the huge wide open worlds that the games are known for, as Todd says "if you can see it, you can go there", yet at the same time one cant deny that the open world aspect of the games are also one of its biggest weaknesses. The Developers can only make a world so big and in making the world open you have a smaller area to play with in placing the various towns, locations and points of interest, sure this is not so much of a problem in a game set around a smaller area such as a small town and its surrounding area or a city however considering that the game world in Skyrim is supposed to represent an entire province the world just got a whole lot smaller. Lets take a look back at Oblivion, look back at the towns and more specifically the Imperial City, not quite the sprawling metropolis one would expect from the capital city of the Empire, even the siege of Bruma felt more like a schoolyard brawl than the epic battle scene that the developers probably wanted it to be, compare it to the Boletarian Palace in Demon's Souls, while you may not have the freedom to go where ever you want if you look over the edge you will see a huge city below you, while you may not get to explore all of it it does give off the feeling that the world is so much larger than just what you can explore.

Now before you start I just want to make it clear that I am not suggesting that Bethesda should change the open world aspect of their games as it has been a core part of the Elder Scrolls experience and no matter what you choose each method of handling the world the game is set in has its advantages and disadvantages, I merely wish to open up a discussion about the merits of open world vs seperate cells.

Go away. :flamethrower:

... and "guiding mountains" are still bad...

Honestly, it never bothered me. I never thought of TES games as "scale" to what the world actually is. And I don't want to see something I don't have access to. I would be fine with the borders just having insurmountable mountains.

Well... Skyrim isn't to small. It's land area is more than big enough, and with all the dungeons and such underground, it makes it a very huge game. I can see the point in the towns and capitals being a bit to small, but hey, i think it's fine really.

Skyrim is suffering from Theme Park syndrome. Lots to do in such a little space.

Honestly, it never bothered me. I never thought of TES games as "scale" to what the world actually is. And I don't want to see something I don't have access to. I would be fine with the borders just having insurmountable mountains.


2 smart guys with me 3

I'll have to play the game before I can really properly judge the scale. Morrowind felt massive to me so I was surprised to learn it was actually smaller than Cyrodiil.

First off, you just said the world got a lot smaller. Course TES isn't based on Earth, It's based on Nirn - so what do you mean the world just got smaller?

Also, go away. Oblivion was big enough to get bored walking in, that's big enough - and skyrim is the same size if not bigger with more [censored] to do.

Bah!

This is why they built a new engine and merged greaves with cuirass and who knows what else.

Have a little faith, baby!

I don't understand why people are being so negative to the OP, he brings up some valid points. Just ones that I and others don't agree with. The worst thing to do is to let game developers make a stale game that isn't progressing. I feel that Skyrim is progressing enough for my tastes however, a nice improvement on Oblivion.


And as far as huge games go, Daggerfall was massive, too big even, soooo much empty space, and finding your way in it was very confusing, I prefer a small amount of hand holding early on in the game that will help me figure my own way without being frustrated.

Not sure if you its exactly as you described it, but it does have certain density aspect to it, which can be either good or bad, depending on implementation.

I had this impression initially, too, but then when I went back to play Morrowind, I realized how much slower one's character moves across the ground. I almost couldn't handle it.

Huge cities + a lot of citizen = 5 X360

This OLD OLD OLD OLD generation of consoles can't handle this.

Every limitation is for that...

At our current technological limits you can have:

Huge open-world with tons of randomly generated NPCs without much in the way of interactivity or A.I. Possibly even randomly generated environments. Gives you that "sense" of a large world, though in truth it is rather empty or shallow in most places. See: GTA, Assassin's Creed, Daggerfall etc.

Smaller open-world with less NPCs, dungeons, and so on. But those that do exist have more depth and meaning. Gives you a "sense" of a highly detailed world. See: Morrowind, Fallout 3/NV.

Not don't get me wrong, GTA, Saints Row, and all that have detailed worlds for what they do. You don't really need NPCs with tons of dialogue and unique appearance and AI in those games. You are there to have fun in that sandbox, and what really matters is the gameplay and you. Not everyone else.

In an RPG you need those believable NPCs and hand-crafted environments to keep me interested. Instead of the sandbox being the star, it is what's inside the sandbox that matters.

But that is just my opinion of course. Plenty of folks prefer the more randomized aspects of some RPGs. Such as Diablo's loot system, Daggerfall's dungeons, and so on.

While Demon's/Dark Souls may have very pretty backdrops, at the end of the day, can you go there? Probably not. To me this seems like an illusion. It makes it appear the world and cities are huge, but all it is is a beautiful, animated painting to give you the illusion that you're in a huge place while at the same time funneling you through where they need you to go to advance the game. How is this any different than Skyrim's mountains? At least, for the most part, you can get to the top of Skyrim's mountains, either above ground or below it, or you can go around the mountains. IMO, Demon's/Dark Souls' world may look bigger, but I really think due to the fact that you have the freedom to pretty much go anywhere in Skyrim (you're not on rails), that Skyrim's world will feel bigger and more dense, and I'd take that over a sprawling, expansive painting of a city I'll never get to explore. That's what I have the Skyrim art book for.

Who gives a crap about the backdrop if you can't go there? You see a big city and you think "oh sweet!" then you realize you can't even go there and that takes you out of the game