What if the Skyrim system was applied to D&D? Here is how I image the first character creation session with the DM would go:

(note this is just for laughs or discussion)

DM – What you do you want to be?
Player – I want to be a male Elven Ranger.
DM – You can not be a Ranger.
Player – What? Why not?
DM – There are no classes now. Just play like a Ranger and you will be one, or anything you want to be.
Player – But I do not want to be anything else. I want to be a Ranger.
DM – Then just play your male elf like a Ranger and pick perks that would help him do this.
Player – Perks?
DM – Yeah, each level you can pick a perk and those perks help define your character.
Player – Oh, ok. Well which perks do I need to pick to become a Ranger?
DM – There are no Rangers. Just pick whatever perks you think a Ranger would use.
Player – So are there perks that only someone wanting to be a Ranger can chose?
DM – No. Anyone can pick any perk. Just pick what you want to use. How hard is this?
Player – But what if I pick a non-Ranger perk? Will that miss up my character?
DM – You can not miss up your Ranger. There are no Rangers. Just play the game and play like you want to. If you want to play a Ranger then just play like a Ranger.
Player – But anyone else can pick the same perks my Ranger can?
DM – You do not have a Ranger. It is just a character. Play it the way you want.

Player – Ok, I think I get it now. Let us just roll my attributes then. I want high dexterity since I will be using a bow a lot.
DM – There is no dexterity, only Health, Magicka and Stamina.
Player – What? But what if I want to use a bow? What if I want to be anti-social with no charisma? What if I want to be able to carry a lot of stuff?
DM – Just chose the perks to let your character do these things.
Player – Oh, perks again. Well how many do I get to start off with?
DM – None.
Player – What? But how can I define my character then?
DM – You define them as you play. It is not hard really. Besides I will make sure you level real fast.
Player – Ok, I think I get it. What is Player 2 playing anyway?
DM – Player 2 is playing a female elf.
Player – A female elf what?
DM – Well, she wants to be a mage, but for right now she is just a female elf.
Player – Like me. So my Ranger and her Mage are no different at all?
DM – There are no classes so there are no Rangers or Mages. Do I need to go over this again?
Player - … yes please.

Very good

Unfunny and uninformative.

I might have to say my best D&D sessions were the ones where I threw out the rules and dice rolling. (good GMs tailor the game to their players and mine seemed interested in role playing and had absolutely no interest in roll playing.)

The example is more of people with no creativity, attributes can not save them. You want to be anti-social, then RP being anti-social, you don't need a number and I dare you to play an anti-social sorcerer by those rules, you could only cast level zero spells. (10 is average, anti social is below average.)

It was a joke, and obviously you didn't get it.

There's tons of classless RP systems out there, you know.



Charisma in D&D is force of personality, not social skill.

I think the player has some mental issues. I don't think he should be playing video games.

The problem is, that the "charisma" attribute is more than just being anti-social, it also determines your physical attrativeness, your "influence" on other people, and your "aura" or "likeability"... That means, that if you cannot choose to have a low charisma, you will not be descriminated in any way, it'll be a paradise for political correctness; say you are a beatiful woman, who seduces a storekeeper to get discounts -sorry not gonna happen! Say you're the hunch-back of Notre Dame -sorry everyone likes you fine, and completely ignore your physical or social shortcomings.

The only way you can get people to behave towards you as "anti-social" is by talking or acting anti-social, which means that appearances suddenly counts for nothing... Which is just bizarre. Of course, since I do not know if they have found any alternate way of dealing with this, I'll reserve my actual judgement, till I've played Skyrim...

He he thats was nice.

Video games kinda do that anyways, even with a charisma score, which tends to just be a bonus with speech checks. It's also really terrible to have charisma and beauty under the same stat. A vapid Valley girl may convince the jock that just wants to get laid but any man that doesn't do his thinking with the lower region would see though her clumsy attempts at manipulation.

Haha, very nice.

But when I first heard of there being no classes or attributes and how it would work I thought it was much better. Labels at the beggining svck. Play how you want, then label yourself.

I'm sorry to say that's redundant. A man that doesn't do his thinking with the lower regions does not exist But I see your point. In Vampire -the Masquerade Bloodlines, physical attrativeness and charisma are two seperate stats.

People are just extremely use to routine so when someone says,

"Just play the [censored] game, it will practically do all that tedious crap its self" people freak the hell out!

I always find it amusing that the pen and paper roleplayers are supposed to be the ones with incredibly vivid imaginations, yet they can't wrap their brain around such simple concepts.

I am surprised this turned into a Charisma vs. Comeliness thread. Well, no I am not. I have seen threads chase queerer rabbits than that.

Being an old D&D player myself (back in the 80’s) I can definitely see how this would have gone over with our gang of players.

Personally I am anxious about the change, but still wanting to try it out. Since earlier this year another game developer made major changes to a game franchise that butcher it IMO (cough DA2 cough) I got real nervous when the Skyrim started with their stated major changes. I completely agree that OB needed some major changes. Whether fixing things by just removing them is the right answer, we do not know yet. But I hope it works out.

You just made my morning a little better lol

@nervarine1138
I know, right? The new systems demands more imagination and then the "roleplayers" flip saying there is no room for imagination. Do you really need the game to label you? I never really used the classes presented, just made my own class and named it something immature.

Wise words!!!

Well there are two types of imagination the way I see it.

Personally I have no creativity at all, but I was able to get a college degree in Mathematics. So I can not paint a lovely still life, but I can do math to the nth degree. For me role-playing is playing within very well defined guidelines and rules. Whether the rules are self imposed or design based, staying in character and never straying from what I am supposed to be is role-playing. However, I can see why someone who is creative would hate that kind of system (I will never understand it, but I can see it).

With Skyrim they definitely made changes that encourage the more creative types. This unfortunately can leave someone like me floundering for some kind of rules and regulations to hang my hat on.

But like I said, I am willing to give it a try. Hopefully I can develop my character without feeling completely lost.

Imagination... Heh


Spitting on your screen has more impact on the game.