I agree with what most people here have said. One thing I'd like to point out about Destruction is that unless you enchant items to significantly reduce the cost of Destruction spells, it's not a viable skill to use. I used to be a Destruction focused mage. Then I picked up conjuration to have my summons tank for me. Not only do they tank but they destroy enemies. Trying to kill without them takes me so much longer. I use firebolt which is a novice spell. If I use Fireball which is adept, I can keep my mana up fairly well but it's an AE so it damages things I don't want to be damaged as well as throwing random things around like quest items. If I use Incinerate, an expert spell, I only get 7 casts out of it. I am level 46. I have 750 mana, 318% magicka regen and 75% magicka cost reduction in Destruction spells. I should surely be able to get more than 7 casts for an expert spell. My expert summons, when dual casting, cost nearly half as much magicka and they're damage is larger than mine.

I don't really mind this since I enjoy playing a conjuror based class. However, I wanted to be a destruction based class. As is, I can completely stop using Destruction and it would barely effect me. Beyond getting impact, I see no reason to have anymore points in this skill.

I have invested in the Fire line as well as Master magicka reduction and if it remains this way, I'll not be selecting anything in fire past impact again. It falls under the same reason I have Alteration. I leveled Alteration simply to get the +30% magic dmg reduction. Purely for the buff. Had I been able to foresee what lay ahead of me with destruction, I would have only gotten impact as I said above purely for Crowd Control ability. That said, Impact is a great perk being that it allows me to stun 3 enemies at once if I time myself well. Then again, I suppose I could just use Illusion to confuse them instead...

/edit Sorry, I'm a bit drunk and had many finger mistakes. The mage skills themselves are not broken. It's only Destruction that lacks. I'd like to quote something, though not verbatim, that I read on these forums. When a skill is called Destruction, you expect said skill to destroy. Currently, Destruction destroys nothing. It would be better named if it were called something like Fireworks etc...

Actually, it doesn't. Although I can see where console users can make this kind of argument because they are at Beth's mercy as far as changes go. A change there might change something that others didn't like and there is nothing that they would be able to do about it. In the same vein, the issue with destruction scaling may NEVER be addressed leaving console users that care about that screwed if Beth does nothing about it. Which is why I hate when these type of games come out for console instead of sticking with the pc model as it always has. In the pc game, you'll be able to mod this game in any way that you see fit within the construction set's limits.

In general - a single player game like this one should be whatever the player feels is right within their own experience and being able to mod the game in the way that you want will only cause it to affect YOUR game.

Can you provide a citation or quote where a developer found a certain class to be "game breaking" and it had to be balanced otherwise the game would be "broken"? If not keep your emicons off the forum.

EDIT: Single Player Open World Game, its implied but I wanted to make sure it was explicit

Thank you. I agree 100%. I'm very happy to play the game the developer gave me. I'll adapt my playstyle to whatever abilities the game offers and have fun with that. The problem is that people have a hard time letting go of their own expectations instead of accepting the controls, options, and limitations of the game and adapting to that. 90% of the time, once I've acclimated myself to the game's mechanics, I can just relax and have fun.

Please, give me one reason why Destruction should not become any more powerful after level 40.

Just one, please.

I'm happy to play the game, too, but I shan't be using destruction until they get it fixed.

gee, it's a good thing that destruction mages can save their stamina for running from all the high level encounters they won't be able to handle with their terrible spells.

That guy is using unenchanted, unupgraded Steel weapons. You appear to have reading comprehension issues.

You say balance doesn't matter then talk about how Destruction scaling is an issue and that mods will fix these problems. Next time you post try not to contradict yourself in the same post, it makes you look dumb. Oh and I've been PC gaming since the first Dune RTS. Don't make the assumption everyone but you plays on a console.



Who are you to tell me what to keep off this forum, sport? Why should I have to school the ignorant as to why balance is important in ALL games? Think about it for yourself for more than one second and you may be surprised.

I never told you to keep off the forums, I told you not to use emicons (which are ridiculous)if you were going to make baseless assumptions and berate people without using any supported facts. So with that said can you provide a cite or a quote from a developer where they found a class or a build game breaking in a single player open-world game? Its okay if you can't its not absolute proof one way or another but it would go along way in supporting your argument.

My argument is that its nearly impossible to create an immersive game that is balanced between all the class choices that Skyrim provides. Nor should Bethesda attempt to balance a single player open world game because to do so would result in many aspects of the game being watered down. Personally I don't care if you want to play a mage and one shot dragons with fireballs that's fine, IMO it would ruin the game having such short battles (for me) but if you want a destruction "I win button" I hope that they give it to you.

Furthermore your argument that balance is important to all games is ridiculous; Mario 2 is one of my favorite games I still play it on the comp today but Princess was so much easier to use in that game than Toad its not even funny, In Oregon Trail the banker has a much easier time making the trip than the farmer because of the amount of money he has available, In Dragon Age Origins Mages are better in every aspect with using the Arcane Mage/Blood Dragon Combo. All three of these games I listed are awesome games that are terribly imbalanced yet fun why can't Skyrim be the same?

You can respond back with a well reasoned argument including a cite regarding game breaking imbalance or you could use ad homin attacks, call me names, make stuff up (like I told you to keep off the forums), and use Emicons, that sounds about right for Bethesda forums so I'm guessing that's what you'll do.

yes. OP I completely agree

I'm going to comment on New Vegas with this balancing thing.
After the DLC's, I started to loathe it.

The skills were unbalanced cause we were given too many skill points and too many levels, and forcing me to remove a trait in order to pick Logans Loophole, which means I am forced to do the DLC Old World Blues before lvl 30 is not something I approve of.
The balance in character difference was broken completely.

And if I went further on with levels the perks were somewhat trivialized, instead of being "You only get 15 perks, so make them count", we got with the DLC's "Hey don't worry about it, you'll get 25 perks by the end of it!"
Why is this a problem for me? Cause if made the thing about thinking carefully with your build a complete joke. Sure you can't get "every" perk in the game, but you'll be able to get implants from OWB and from Medical Clinic and some (forced) perks with OWB and couple this with 10 more perk choices and we suddenly don't have to worry about making a mistake, cause we'll still have 10 more times to choose a perk.

Then came the combat, at first, it was new, the change from DR to DT made it unpredictable at first what weapons were gonna do to enemies, but with no variation, no random spawns and no focus on trying to beef up the combat in different aspects it became ridiculously easy, to the point where in OWB they had to use bullet sponges and LSR they had to use Point Lookout+ damage.
Balance? There was no balance, at all, only way I could have the combat be challenging was if I walked around with a .22 Silenced Pistol and no clothes or armors.

And of course, +5 health with each level, meaning that we got 245 more health.

In New Vegas, with the DLC's, there is no balance, there is only self imposed nerfing or demi-gods.

So my opinion on it is that balance is important in a singleplayer game as well.
Cause in the end, New Vegas became so frustratingly boring to me and I found more flaws than I found positives.

I now play a modded New Vegas and I have achieved the perfection I wanted.
Skill points are drastically reduced and once I feel I have enough skill points I'll be able to console command in a perk I've made to reduce my skill points per level by 90%.
I have made it so I get a perk every third level and modified the perks to suit that kind of ratio.
I don't get any health at all per level.
And SPECIAL is made more important.

But I think it's sad that it had to come to it, where the game was so broken that I could not enjoy it without resorting to mods.
And I feel for all the console users who are limited to the official content only.

Balance is important, doesn't matter if it's an RPG, FPS, Strategy Game, Puzzle, Platform Jumper, Racing, Sports et cetera, it doesn't matter if it's online or offline.
Balance is crucial for a game to work, and leaving it up to the players to have them impose nerfing on themselves or use mods is not a valid solution, it's lazy.

Again though, I do not have anything against pro's and con's, I don't think that everything should be exactly equal, but New Vegas... :shudders:
New Vegas showed what I don't want any RPG to become. Borderlands or Dead Island or Dead Rising works fine with "Become as much of a god as possible" as those games focus strictly around combat and raising the challenge the more you play.
But an actual RPG needs to have balance to some degree, it's not about "build up to become a god", it's about roleplaying, and certain limitations must be put onto the players for that reason even if people that have become used to the "build up to become a god" get frustrated and annoyed.

As for Skyrim, what exactly needs balancing`?
Far as I see most things work out fine.
Dragons are a bit measly currently but I heard that tougher dragons come later.
Lockpicking is useless.
And uh... Yeah then I have no idea what else is "unbalanced".
I haven't seen much inbalance at all.

Its not about differences, its about actual usability.

I stopped playing a level 27 'Pure' Mage, and by pure I mean a robe wearing sissy. I didnt have a problem with dieing, survivability using various methods was fine, but you just cant kill anything in a reasonable amount of time, and I didn't notice how bad it was until I re-rolled as an archer. at level >1< I was killing mobs with 1-2 arrows that had taken 3/4 of my magika bar to kill. I was absolutely shocked at how fast everything was, and still is dieing. This is on the default difficulty level.

Im not saying archery is OP, quite the contrary, im having a blast and I feel that archery is right where it should be, and I haven't played a melee so ill not comment, but characters who use destruction exclusively as their damage dealing skill are quite frankly gimped in my opinion, and this should not be the case, all damage dealing skill should be viable, on all difficulty levels, if they're not, somethings broken.

The zombie guys are case in point, now that my fledgling archer is level 4, has a couple points in archery, and has picked up a decent bow(non magic, 14 dmg i think) I can now one-shot the rank and file zombies guys.

At level 27, with 65~ points in destruction, I had never once one-shotted anything except mudcrabs and rats. And would honestly have to kite/run when faced with anything more than 1 basic creature. The other damage dealing skills are not overpowered, destruction just needs some help, mainly with perks. Whoever thought that the 'upgrades' to destruction should be mostly mana-saving is a twit. You max the whole tree and only gain +50% damage? Its the only damage dealing skill thats this low, even conjuration amps up damage more than that if im not mistaken.

But at the end of the day, I know ill get what I want, I just have to wait for the mod tools so the players can fix things. Happened with Morrowind slightly, happened with Oblivion majorly.