One thing that's been puzzling me, with all the Enclave supporters here who post how they put the FEV into the purifier at the end of the game, is: to get to the point where President Eden gives you the FEV virus in Raven Rock, you have to refuse to give Colonel Autumn the activation code to the purifier. As he's the Enclave military commander giving you, as an Enclave supporter, a direct order, how can you refuse, from a roleplaying perspective? Not bashing the Enclave or trying to incite a war here, just curious. I appreciate that if you give him the correct code, he kills you but just looking at this purely from a roleplaying point of view.

Perhaps your character is pro-Enclave but anti-Autumn? Though I'm sure many of the Enclave supporters are more pro-Autumn than Eden.

I am a firm supporter of Colonel Autumn and while I always use the FEV since it regardless serves the Enclave's interests, I see it as a tactical device (much like Autumn) and I believe the Enclave will win more in the long run if it takes over the nation conventionally. After all, all that matters is restoring the United States as it was on that fateful day. Everything else is extra. FEV ensures rapid unification of the nation but an incredibly slow reconstruction as it would likely take centuries to reach pre-war gross national product. However with the near-humans as a working force, the Enclave could rebuild cities as it conquers more. By the time they would meet Caesar's Legion, NCR and the like they would be just too strong to be contended with. And by the time Enclave reaches Alaska, the nation would be pretty much rebuilt.

I forgive Autumn's brutal behavior and blame it on laziness by Bethesda. Giving the code could have easily cracked open an Enclave sidequest, where you ally with Colonel Autumn. But ooooooh nooooo..... I did mods myself to fix this and allow Lone Wanderer-Autumn cooperation but the official story is still gruesomely anti-climatic.


On a roleplayer basis, all my characters oppose the Enclave until they arrive in Raven Rock and prior to my mods they saw reason not until Eden persuaded them to aid his cause.


The best an Autumn supporter can do without mods is to spare the man and later destroy the Brotherhood of Steel. While the player will not live to see it, this ensures long-term Enclave victory. If the player plays his cards right, the Enclave's plan becomes a http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/XanatosGambit.

From a roleplaying perspective in general, you sorta have to ignore some of the dialogue which occurs throughout the game. And obviously (without mods) if you are going to play the game completely through with a pro-Enclave character, then most of it isn't going to make much sense (thanks largely to Bethesda). Marching on the purifier with Liberty Prime is one of them. Then later, attacking AAFB is another.

With mods however (like what I use) it becomes a bit more sensible. Defending the purifier against Prime makes that battle a bit more interesting.

I can imagine, that does sound fun. Obviously the game was written with the CW BoS in mind, good to hear there's an option for everyone who supports the Enclave, on PC anyway.Is there a mod that makes inserting the FEV (with BS installed) do what it's supposed to and wipe out the Capital Wasteland?

Not that I know of (and I've checked). But essentially if the FEV worked like its supposed to you'd get the "Humanity was preserved, but only in its purest form" ending. It'd wipe out pretty much everything in the CW so there wouldn't be much to do really.

I refuse to give him the code because my characters are always pissed at being stripped and bound naked without even being taken to dinner first

There was a mod that added a few more patients in the clinics after the virus was used but I can't remember the name of it.

You bastard. You got me trapped on tvtropes for an hour and a half tonight! That said, I think I usually do it when I play a pro-Enclave guy because it's what President Eden said to do. He's the President, not Autumn. So he outranks Autumn. I'm remaining loyal to the Enclave and then destroying Autumn because he betrayed the rightful leader of these United States.

:evil:

The President is the de-jure leader of the Enclave but he apparently holds no real power over the Enclave's military, which is all that's left since Fallout 2. Colonel Autumn is in control of the human soldiers and they gladly follow his orders. Eden had to bend under Autumn's pressure and before Lone Wanderer's arrival the Enclave's official doctrine was to conventionally take over the Wasteland by destroying mutants by fire and distributing water to those who pass gene scans (near-humans), as was Autumn's plan. Eden has to work undercover, secretly preparing his FEV plans and assisting the Lone Wanderer's escape from Jefferson Memorial (remember those eyebots?)

By Fallout 3 the Enclave is little but a military remnant so IMO that places army commanders above politicians.


And of course there is the delicate matter that possible allegiance to Autumn guarantees Lone Wanderer's survival as to him/her the FEV is fatal.

That's debatable, simply because Eden gave an order and Autumn countermanded it doesn't mean that Eden has no authority over the soldiery. You could chalk that down to a misunderstanding just as much as a blatant "Nope sorry" to the President on the part of the Enclave soldiers.

Also Li mentions that damage had been done to the purifier and that "Some of it may have been sabotage". It seems to me that she could be referring to Enclave soldiers deliberately trying to ruin Autumn's plan.

And wasn't there a scientist that tried to insert the FEV himself?

Besides, like I've said before. Soldiers don't die with "For Eden..." as their last words unless they near worship the guy.

(anyway, we've had this debate before, but my "defend Eden at all costs" complex can't let him go unspoken for :tongue: )



Near-humans are sometimes killed at those checkpoints as well though.



Wait...what were the eyebots doing at the memorial? :blink:

They were shooting at me if I recall correctly.



Unless there has been a change in the Constitution though (which could be possible), Eden should be Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces.



MY LIFE FOR THE PRESIDENT! :teehee:

The sabotage is simply a plot device. There is absolutely no reason Eden nor Autumn would willingly sabotage the purifier. Eden trusts the Lone Wanderer do his job and Autumn is confident in his fleeting victory.
Yes there was a scientist (R&D is not part of the military, I presume) who without Autumn's nor Eden's consent tried to insert the FEV himself. However he didn't have a proper device to insert the FEV and he didn't pretty much know what he was doing so he wandered into the chamber and died there.

I'm not saying that Eden is a bad leader, I'm not trying to downplay him. My point is just that Eden is not a omnipotent dictator of the Enclave. From the little evidence we can get I would say we can see it's not as simple as that.


Never seen any myself. Only ghouls. Enclave terminals state this - genetic scan is mandatory for all civilians and genetic violators are detained on the spot and disposed by fire when they become uncontrollable or there is no room for more, whichever comes first. Now, I've wandered the wastes more than I'd like to admit and I have never seen not a single near-human being shot by the Enclave. In fact the only near-human-Enclave interactions I've seen is Anna Holt and Stiggs, the irradiated mechanic rescued, cured and recruited by the Enclave. Recruiting useful people means that the Enclave has been changing its doctrine. Coming to think of it, Enclave Radio may not be as propagandic as we'd like to think. Although arguably highly exaggerated, I believe Eden is actually telling the truth what the Enclave would do if in charge.



There are two eyebots that direct the player through the tunnels. I noticed them the first time I played the game and since they have always been peaceful. They switch at one point, the original stops in a dead end while another starts flying through a nearby door, further instructing the player. The latter eventually flies off when player reaches the blast door which Dr. Li needs to hack open.



Beign C-i-C is only a symbolic role. While the President has some say in military matters, they fall to suggestions and especially a president with no military training would have very little impact on commanding officers. There is a cult of personality, yes, but all evidence points that Autumn controls Eden as a puppet. Autumn can kill him any moment he wants without anyone knowing, and he is the only one authorized to meet him. Autumn is not nearly as charismatic nor patient as Eden so the latter is useful kept alive, especially as there appear to be no suitable successors for Eden.

Off-topic but related, in my ever-expanding Enclave quest mod Autumn ends up "murdering" Eden, and proclaims himself President to avoid himself being ousted by officers loyal to Eden (this takes place 3 years after Purifier battle - Eden has been constantly chewing out Autumn's authority and seeks to replace him). An opposing officer, a total hardliner, calls for democratic elections (near-humans, now under Enclave control, are not eligible to vote). Player must choose whether he supports Moderates (Autumn) or the Hardliners. Whoever loses pouts and retreats to Pentagon (winner takes Raven Rock) and a brief civil war ensues. If Moderates and Autumn win the Wastelanders are spared and the Enclave starts slow but firm expansion fueled by near-human labor. If the hardliners win, the Enclave exterminates all Wastelanders and begins developing FEV Curling-13 again.

I don't see why we all suspect that scientist of inserting FEV - where would he get it from? - more than likely he was sent in to out the code in. As for the sabotage you can't just right it off like that; maybe some Enclave soldiers took matters into their own hands, a lot of people where killed that day, makes sense that they wouldn't want the enemy to succeed even in victory.



Well you say yourself below that Colonel Autumn is controlling the military, just means that it's likely a Autumn dcontrine; I would have to say though that just because we don't see ghouls means there are none, there's a camp outside Cantubury Commons that catalouges items taken from mainlanders, no bodies there but a fair few clothing and weapons. Just saying.

They need Anna Holt in-case something goes wrong with the Purifier, and after Whitley went insane maybe the remnants just decided they needed a mechanic; it's not like they haven't dealt with mainlanders before, both amicably and through slavery.

As for Enclave Radio it is the truth, key difference is that everyone listening won't be alive when it comes to fruition.


Now you see I wouldn't be so sure here, Autumn may control the Enclave's military but he certainly wasn't aware that Eden had been continuing his work on the FEV. Andronicus and I discussed this before, it's all the more likely that any backing down to pressure on Eden's part was intentional; as you said Autumn doesn't have the patience that comes from being an internal machine, we hypothesised that Eden backs down to Autumn over the FEV things and maybe others to lure Autumn into a false sense of security - so he won't begin his coup thing - so he can actually continue the FEV plan like he had all along. Makes sense no?

I also think that Autumn and Eden's relationship is different to that, if you speech Autumn at the end it seems to me more like Autumn wanted to have his cake and eat it, have his non-FEV Purifier yet keep Eden alive as the President; maybe Autumn doesn't think himself capable of High Office or maybe he likes Eden. That self-destruct code in the locker was a plot-device young man.

Also, whilst IRL the CiC is like a traditional position - much like my own Queen's role as CiC in the UK, it's really just to prevent a military coup by politicians controlling the army (as in they technically can't) - but in the Enclave it's a little different. Captain Kreger went on patrol with like three guys, a Colonel is the highest-ranking officer in the Army; what with the scale of things now being so much smaller it's not inconceivable that he could lean on Autumn more if he wanted too.

He leaves a note behind. Can't quote it word-to-word but he complains about Eden placing trust on an outsider and decides to do it himself. Badly. Sic transit gloria mundi, he writes.


If we don't see something, nor hear of it, it's likely that it doesn't exist. It's a bad logic to assume things based on what you want. If it's not there, it's just not there :shrug:
Confiscated items don't tell about their owners, though it's a good find nonetheless.


Holt says the Enclave wanted her help. And? It pretty much proves itself here. Having Holt around is indeed for the Purifier, why not? What are you implying here?
Whitley was a robot programmer, for all we know. Virologists don't deal with bacteria, repairmen don't build.
Stiggs says he was irradiated and comatose when the Enclave rescued him, cured him and let him work for them. Simple as that. The Enclave recruited him as he seemed to come in handy.

Besides, Whitley didn't even exist at the time Fallout 3 was created. We first heard of him in NV.


Depends on who's pulling the lever.

the Radio is not truth if we are talking about it applying it directly to pure-humans only. Eden directs most of his speeches to the people of the Capital Wasteland, not "Americans" or anything like that. "The children of the Capital Wasteland will be its highest priority" and so on.


I wouldn't put my money on that R&D, Chemical Corps or whatever are parts of the standing military of the Enclave. They are most likely just civilians and thus take orders from Eden directly.
Nor I would go that far on hypothesizing as we lack proof to see what was going on behind the scenes. Hypothesizing is fun and so on but it's still hypothesizing. I am here discussing things that are, not things I want to be.


The self destruct code is there, Autumn says on the tape that he uses it as a last resort, so that appears to mean that Autumn intentionally kept the code as an ace-up-the-sleeve. It's not a plot hole, nor a joke. Unlike the unexpectedly sabotaged Purifier we know who has the code, he repeats the code in tape, and says why it should be used. I'd say that's pretty damn enough of proof.
Otherwise I agree with the above. Autumn wants Eden alive. However, there are some serious tensions between them and Autumn appears to keep him alive in lack of better successors.


Kreger lived in a time when the Enclave's population was in thousands and command structure was intact. It appears Autumn is lucky to have a few hundred under his command. There were other Colonels back in the day, and even Curling was a Lt.Col. despite apparently lacking military expertise. A formality promotion, like with Soviet cosmonauts.

Despite my valiant efforts at understanding I didn't interpret any arguments in the above... Intended, perhaps.

I have no idea where you got this from, there is no note on the guys body or in the vicinity and I am struggling to find it on the wikia too which has all of the notes, holotapes in the game transcripted.



Point is that your painting these two occurances as a sign of change in the Enclave when it's all the more likely that they are just means to an end like Horrigan. I was also implying that Stiggs could have been recruited because we know that the one Robot expert said to be at AAFB went insane.



He still intends to kill them so I don't see how it's a sign of anything to come. Unless your suggesting that Autumn forced him into making those speeches at which point I would reiterate that your probably giving Autumn too much credit - he had the self-destruct codes, not a button to turn Eden off. Raven Rock is far more valuable to the Enclave survival in D.C.



Autumn apparently has the authority to cancel Whitley's project at AAFB after another Enclave scientist reports it to him. Also the Chemical Corps are a part of the US Army, Lt. Colonel Dr Charles Curling, and contrary to the fail wiki are in-fact a irl part of the US Army which responds to CRBN threats etc.



Hardly, using in-game evidence to draw necessary conclusions. There has to be a reason why Autumn felt himself so in control yet was deceived by Eden that FEV was still being researched and developed. We know from Autumn's note that both were aware of mutual distrust yet we also know that Eden didn't know of the Self-Destruct code - from both the note and Eden's own reaction. So yeah it makes complete sense and is by no means leaping to any conclusion; Autumn had other forms of leverage - his coup - and we know that Eden only pretended to go along with Autumn. How does this not lead one to the conclusion that Eden was only playing Autumn? I'm sorry but I find your explaination that Autumn was just always in complete control a little convenient coming from the biggest Autumn fan in the room .



Well that and he needs Raven Rock or the Enclave is [censored].


Kreger still served as a Captian post-Oil Rig though, and then he was down a man (Dr Henry).

EDIT: In the last part I was merely contesting the notion that - again - Autumn and Autumn alone held control over the entire military purely because in the pre-war days the President as C-i-C was ceremonial. Indeed we see Eden order Lieutenant Williams to report for re-assignment.

Given that the LW is taken to Raven Rock specifically to get the purifier code, which presumably Anna Holt has told the Enclave that he knows (or they realised from the Enclave scientist who went in and failed) Autumn is acting extremely hastily to then countermand Eden's orders to leave the LW alone. If Autumn wants to use the purifier for everyone, surely killing the one person with the code is idiotic. There's plot holes, and then some....

Plus as said before, he's disobeying a direct order from his Commander in Chief.

Perhaps not, but I dare say that Eden certainly doesn't have "no authority" over the Enclave's military. I don't deny that Autumn wields a significant amount of influence, but I think its clear that Eden is somewhat popular with the soldiers. At least that he has some "cult of personality" going for him.




Two locations for sure have them. One is the Wheaton armory checkpoint location (they are located in a ditch) and the other is the Vault 92/Old Olney Checkpoint, in which there are two wastelanders dead.





Hmmm... that's interesting, although its not necessarily conclusive proof that Eden was directing them however.




Not in the United States. If I understand correctly, in Finland the role is mostly symbolic, with practical power being given to other members of the government (the Chief of Defense I believe?).

But as per Article II of the U.S. Constitution:



Traditionally, different President's have used the power over the army in different way. Some have decided to exert less control, some have decided to exert much more. President Lincoln during the Civil War was very active in directing and controlling the U.S. Army, as did President Lyndon B. Johnson during the Vietnam War, Teddy Roosevelt (simply in general), Franklin D. Roosevelt, and even President Bush. Certainly the President would not lead troops directly in battle, and would rely on advice from advisers, but the ultimate authority is vested in him. At the very least, there is no grounds for which a commander of the military would be able to ignore the President or go against an order.

The only real restrictions on the President in control of the military is that Congress gets to decide where the money goes and is the only entity that can declare war (many Presidents have ignored that little detail however and just not had formal wars). They have, in other words, "power of the purse."

Awhile back there was a story about a U.S. army officer that bad-mouthed President Obama and the Iraq war. He was heavily critized and was punished (I can't remember how) because the President is the highest commanding officer of the military. In other words, he was insubordinate.



More importantly, Lt. Williams goes to Eden first to ask what to do about the LW.

And he gives Eden all due respect and obeys his order to be reassigned without so much as a peep in protest.




I wouldn't say all evidence. Eden seems to be able to assert himself quite handily when necessary.



Can't say I approve of that. :cryvaultboy:



Completely agree.



It may be cut content, as I just checked the purifier and didn't find anything on the scientist or around him.

I am not trying to say Autumn was in charge of everything. It's not my interest. All I'm saying is that both Autumn and Eden had their specific fields of command and that's that. All I'm saying is that Autumn decided what the Wasteland outposts do, which strongly seems to be a role in pacification and extermination of ghouls.
Besides I don't see what's the fuss in who pulls the strings. It's a trivial matter, being in command is just another job.

Nor I would call myself "biggest Autumn fan in the room". I don't have any real sympathies for the man himself that I didn't feel for other Enclave personnel, I just agree with his plan. I don't really give a [censored] how the Enclave wins, as long as they do it. I am not downplaying any member of the faction, as it's highly unnecessary.

I don't really see a problem in Eden working behind Autumn's back. That's not what I'm debating here. Again, all I'm saying is that Autumn isn't just a defective wimp who just fakes he's in charge.

*sigh* sooo inconclusive.


But hell, I'm going to check those outposts. Olney and Wheaton you say...
I would like to quote a terminal note, though:

These could be your confiscated equipment.

Looks like the Enclave is taking weapons from Wastelanders. I dare to say that there isn't a real reason to do this unless the Enclave is preparing for a conventional occupation, though.



Then who is? I honestly doubt that eyebots are sentient and would willingly go and direct their enemy.
Besides, a cut content dialogue has Eden accompany his troopers to the Purifier. Possibly interacting through an eyebot, he proclaims "attention! Another civilian, take him down!"
I would suggest it was cut to have Eden come as a more sympathetic figure later on, not the guy who just ordered your execution.

How could you possibly miss him? http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3352/geck2011102819595136.jpg

Hell, can't find his note since the search function is broken in GECK (crashes the thing) but it's there, or at least used to be. Could have been removed in BS. I remember the latin phrase, sic transit gloria mundi, so this can't be just a hallucination.

Nor am I, the amount of authoritt he held is pretty clear. Just saying it's stated in the game that Eden faked him out with the FEV thing.



That's the one.

I think that the Enclave has other methods of enforcing order on the wasteland than setting up checkpoints . You also find two Enclave Footlockers - with unique names no less, something like sample case - than contain clothes... Seems more to me that the Enclave is making a tactical appraisal of the common mainlander, how much firepower and such the common guy can be expected to have.



I don't think it's as cryptic as that, the Eyebots could be down their as scouts, we see a fair few Enclave troopers down there and it's not like anyone saw the Lone Wanderer go in, they were already down there. As for why they aren't hostile, because Eyebots aren't tagged hostile are they? If you got one to come near you fighting an Enclave soldier they would turn hostile.



There's no note in the game. I still think it's more likely he was one of the past attemps to put the code in, we know from the dialouge where Autumn has the LW in prison that someone was sent in before - the trooper over the PA goes "another good man lost" or soemthign to that effect" and that's the only body so case closed.

I'm not trying to downplay Autumn's role at all. Its always been my belief that Autumn was the absolute second most important person in the Enclave and held power and influence within his own right. All I'm saying is that I don't believe Autumn has the authority to circumvent Eden, since Eden, as the legitimate President via the line of succession (something that Autumn himself upholds) is the leader of the Enclave in Fallout 3. Thus, he's Autumn's "Boss" as commander in chief.

I don't even believe that Autumn attempted a coup, I just think he went rogue for a bit in order to see to it that his plan (which he truly believes is the Enclave's best bet) is implemented. I think he fully intends to come back to Eden once he's managed to persuade Eden see things his way. It's a noble goal, but I can't say I agree with it.

Don't get me wrong, I like Autumn, I just don't consider him to be the de-facto leader of the Enclave in Fallout 3.




That's basically how I feel as well. Autumn's plan, Eden's plan: it doesn't really matter in the long run so long as we win. :foodndrink:



I'm sorta saying that about Eden as well. A compromise perhaps? :hehe:



Yes, and there may be more, but those two locations for sure have a couple dead wastelanders. At Olney they are in the truck, and at Wheaton they are in a bloody ditch on the side of the road near the checkpoint.



Could just be standard protocol though. Take and confiscate any weapons that are discovered to be in the possession of "genetic non-compliance offenders" for instance. Hard to say really.



Well I was more talking about it being inconclusive that Eden is "helping" the lone wanderer. He may just be monitoring the situation. I never really thought for instance, when I played the game that the eye bots were telling me where to go.



I pretty sure that's what happened to me.



I wondered where that was supposed to go. Do you think it was meant for the Purifier?



Yeah I found the scientist, but I couldn't find a note on or around him, so I thought it was cut-content.



Could be. The GECK is so hard to find things on.

Kudos, Lieutenant, for actually considering my part of the story. It's frustrating when no matter what you bring to the table it's dismissed without even looking.


Now THIS is what I've been going for all this time.
EXACTLY.
I was not trying to start a civil war here, I was here to discuss THIS.

And I agree with you. I was probably too excessive in my words. While in the end we disagree who was ultimately pulling the strings I'm glad we agree on everything else.





And I don't think there is any real reason we should be fighting over it. I just found some curious notes and dialogues that I'd like to share :shrug:



Compromise



Fair enough, but you must admit that vast, vast majority of "genetic non-compliants" are ghouls. Not to drag this any further but I would suspect the dead near-humans just didn't pass the test unlike others.
Let's call it a draw.



True. Doesn't mention any clothing though. When I first saw that note I thought it was some absurd Enclave equipment but then I saw the last two names and figured they were Wastelanders. Surprised so many still use surnames, really.



I wasn't really trying to prove anything by that one. I just found it curious and thought I'd like to share the info Don't have any real opinion myself but I could imagine Eden has been planning for using the Lone Wanderer for some time.



The second one flies off to a squad of troopers but don't recall what it does after that. But it nor the first one shoots the player during the actual escape.



Yes, it's tagged as MQ05, meaning the Waters of Life.



I'm positive I got the note on my characters.
I could recall it's added by a script, though.



No way I am hallucinating here, as I've mentioned it many many times before.
EDIT: But of course it was a mod! Man, I feel like an idiot! Well, I am, but still.

Just something I generally try to do.

Like I said, I like Autumn. His character is the definition of a cool and collected military figure in my opinion. Awesome southern accent, military coat, confident commanding officer, and a automatic laser pistol to boot.

I just like Eden better. And genuinely support his ideas over Autumn's. (Also that "self-destruct the President" holotape he has bugs me to no end).

However, I'd rather the characters get along and work as a team. Whatever the plan is.




Fair enough. :foodndrink:




I agree. Those particular wastelanders may not have simply made the "cut" as it were.

Which also begs the question, perhaps, if the Modified FEV virus that Eden uses has a "cut" off point. Could it be possible that some of the less affected wastelanders would be spared?




They may not find it important enough to catalogue. After all more than likely the wastelanders aren't wearing much but tanned brahmin skin crudely stitched together.

Same could be said for the weapons I suppose though, which are nothing compared to what's in the Enclave's arsenal.



Could be. Like I said, its sorta up in the air there. Up for personal interpretation anyway. The eyebots may have been feeding Eden info about the LW since he first left the Vault. I could believe that.



Hmmm..would have been interesting to hear Eden taking a more active role in that respect.



I don't doubt you, as I have a faint recollection of something along the lines of what you are describing. Perhaps it was only in Vanilla?



Wait what mod? If it added that I'm intrigued about what else it did. Is it an Enclave-related mod?

I like Eden a lot. I think he is more rational than his predecessor. Plus I value his charisma - JHE is the only man who can make genocide look like donating money to charity The reason I support Autumn more is just that I find his plan much more practical, a pragmatic solution to a critical issue.


Everything I've seen in Fallout 3 points to the direction that the Enclave doesn't systematically plan to destroy all humans. A lot, but not all. The Enclave goes as far as to give free water to people who come to the genetic testing, so they can't be just murdering them all. There must be people who pass the test and are just sent away.

I like the way you think. I too believe that Eden is allowing a small spectrum of near-humans worthy of salvation. However the biggest difference would be that a whole lot of people protected, such as vault dwellers and others with minimal exposure to radiation (including - gasp - the Brotherhood) would be spared, unlike with Curling-13 which would also kill any uninoculated pure strains..
Eden's FEV most likely works differently from Curling-13 that it doesn't need an antidote - that is it affects a certain gene perhaps, rather than indiscriminately killing any humanoids. Just as plausible, even more so. It could be that Modified FEV hits those with a certain, recognized genetic pattern caused by FEV-2 that has been floating in the Wasteland since the War. Eden promises the Lone Wanderer that he won't be affected and I don't see a reason Eden would lie. His confidant just broke up with him and there is this young vault dweller begging for a chance to help his country. Eden is a machine and he thinks like a machine, I doubt he would toss away a unique chance to have an incredibly reliable lieutenant like the LW. Unfortunately, he is a mutant born of mutants.

On an off-topic note, distributing the virus through water is a much, much more reliable way than having it go airborne. Water is full of viruses, when you dive in the ocean you are swimming with billions upon billions of viruses. Water is an excellent breeding ground for them, although viruses need something to breed in. The Modified FEV should be able to hit different organisms as well, if Eden plans it to exist more than a few weeks.

One more mystery for our time.



Hell if I know. I know that I had it before I unchecked all my mods and then it was gone. I didn't do it, that's for sure. And I've seen it as long as I've played the game. Could be FWE?

Eden was one of the reasons I began to initially lean towards supporting the Enclave (back in the day, before I had even heard of Richardson or the west coast Enclave). Autumn was another however. His darn restoration speech had me "restoring order and civility, by any means necessary" all over the place. :tongue:



I smell an idea for a joint Eden-Autumn venture.....

Let me see here....step by step:

1. Purifier is secured, Prime defeated (somehow). Citadel captured. FEV is inserted into the water as per Eden's orders.

2. Autumn begins regulating distribution to wastelanders. Those who surpass the "cut-off point" are treated to fresh-clean water. Work begins on indoctrinating them into the Enclave or incorporating them into a workforce. Any who don't meet this point are killed by the water and/or Enclave soldiers conducting genetic testing.

3. With the infection of the water in the basin (and presumably the Potomac and thus a good portion of the Chesapeake Bay) evaporation of the water allows it to spread to the general area of the CW and even beyond. Killing super mutants and anything of a more insidious mutated nature. More than likely wipes out a good portion of the Enclave's potential enemies as well.

4. Areas that require a more direct touch (Vault 87 perhaps) are "bombed" with FEV water vapors via Vertibird. In order to ensure a high saturation of the Modified FEV.

5. Any enemies that remain (by passing the cut-off point of the virus, possibly some Outcasts for instance) are killed by more conventional means.

Result: Enclave occupation and control of CW, destruction of mutants via FEV, and incorporation of genetically fit wastelanders into the Enclave's new rebuilding project. Many of the Enclave's more well-armed enemies in the region are weakened by reduced numbers thanks to the FEV. Thus facilitating easier conventional warfare.

I don't know about you, but that would be my version of a compromise plan. B)



That would be the only problem with such a plan. The Brotherhood (for some silly reason) seem to be a rather annoying thorn in the Enclave's side. Liberty Prime would need to be taken out and the Brotherhood defeated in a mono-e-mono fashion.

My heart was captured by the Enclave when I first saw Frank Horrigan and two troopers mow down those three Wasteland asswipes I suppose the event should be a "gasp, bad guys!" but I was more like "Where do I sign up!?" When Horrigan punched Matt in two I just laughed, and hoped I would never have to meet Horrigan in person . Richardson's speech swayed me totally. I am a loyalist by nature and liked the idea of lawful human-controlled United States government holed up and acting like the war had never even happened, hell bent on restoring their power over the world. Unfortunately Fallout 2's black-and-white plot had me destroy the Enclave. Thankfully Fallout 3 gave me the chance to help the Enclave and spare both its leaders, even if I was officially their enemy.

First I hated Autumn, but then I for once listened to his side of the story and I thought he was much more rational than we'd like to think. To most he seems like a wimp who dies in the most anti-climatic way possible, but in the end he was a devoted man just doing his job. :shrug: It's up to one himself how they feel whose plans they support, but both Eden and Autumn were written far better than so-called dinosaurs imply.




Sounds like a plan B) That's exactly what I would want. Best parts of both parties. It's like having your cake, and eating it too

IMO the FEV should not be used after Capital Wasteland is cleared. Instead, the Enclave should work like Barnaky/Caluclator BoS in Fallout: Tactics. I'm quite positive the Enclave, using the near-humans as labor while pure-strains fight the wars, could pull it off. Even better IMO. Curling-13 could be used on a limited scale of course, to clear out stronger factions like the Pitt or NCR. As it's a short-living virus it would be very easy to have controlled releases without endangering people the Enclave would deem worthy of salvation.

Most Enclave supports do not recognize a command from Colonel Autumn due to him being too incompitent for the position.

I gladly refuse giving him the activation codes.