What's the situation on Old Merry's Haute-Elf to Gob relations?

I've read that they keep a whole mess of Goblin soldier-slaves on hand to serve as mass infantry for when their floating crystal trebuchet fleet and wizard corps fail, or the Psijics are too drunk to summon up a storm.

Or was that pre-Walking Brass? Being that Summurset was out-rightly conquered by the firmly anti-slavery Imperials, I don't see Tiber giving them any concessions, especially with an active mantella under his cloak.

Well, there were some Altmer goblin trainers in Morrowind, so the art wasnt completely dead back then. Not a clue what the situation could be now. Maybe the Dominion has continued the goblin training en masse and now try to breed them, train them and make them loyal as quick as possible? Could be an interesting counterforce against the legion. A whole horde of goblins who will crush you through sheer weight and bloodthirst...

I have no idea what happened after they were folded into the empire, but I would be willing to bet as above that the dominion has taken to massing cannon fodder once again

The Imperials may have been anti-slavery, but in Tamriel, goblins are animals. Intelligent animals, but still animals. So banning the Altmer from using goblins is kind of like banning Bretons from owning dogs.

Is there any civilised merish culture, about which we have any substantial information, which does NOT use slavery? The Empire was not immediately effective at halting slavery in Morrowind, and there the slaves were actually considered 'people'.

You can't very well spend all your time returning to the infinite and falling into numerological abysses when there is farming to be done- you need an underclass.

I should like to take this moment to advance my own totally baseless belief that goblins are actually magical contructs, originally spawned from aborted elf foetuses in order to create a non-citizen caste in the absence of a decent supply of humans. This would explain their presence in Summerset and Cyrodiil.

Orsimer and bosmer seem to be the only recognized mer that don't enslave beings.

The Empire had no issue with a Dunmer owning ogre slaves.

The empire bans slavery on creatures they consider intelligent. If you had gone back ~20 years from Oblivion, enslaving an orc wouldn't be an issue.

Are Orsimer considered goblin-kin at all anymore? Or was stuff like The True Nature of Orcs a straight-up retcon/reveal?

I'm toying with the idea that goblins are probably the less fortunate of the aldmer struck down during Trinimac's fall. Really less fortunate. Proto/devolved orcs of sorts?

Pig Children was a propaganda piece, as the people of High Rock and Daggerfall were straight up haters to the orsimer. By the time Morrowind came around, the Imperium took a liking to their newly recognized greenies, as they were very willing to join the Imperial Army and be one of the greatest craftsmen in all of Tamriel. As such, they received a book detailing why they're not so bad, and in fact, are a very good people. Though, it's hard to stop nearly 3000 years of utter hatred towards them, though at least the orsimer are still received by the Nords and Cyrodils. It's the Bretons and Redguards you should keep your eye on.

As for me, I like the theory that the gobbos are degraded aldmer, not really being linked to Trinimac's fall, but just being degraded as an affront to the altmer's view on racial purity.

Hey, the elves have to do something with the degenerate by-products of their eugenics programme.

My thoughts exactly.

90% of Altmer look like Goblins due to inbreeding. 8% are killed for not looking perfect, despite not looking like Goblins. Only 2% survive in normal Altmer society.

In fact, so little Altmer survive only 4 are left. The other ___thousand/million are the 4 playing different roles out of loneliness.

Exactly. Hell, twenty years ago you probably could have eaten an orc without problems, and as far as I can tell in oblivion, attitudes towards the goblins is as bad as it ever was. I doubt the goblin breeding plan ever suffered so much as a setback.

Really ? Under the supervision of who do you think the goblin breeding never stopped ?

I have sometimes thought, even though there is no real solid basis for it, that the goblins we encountered in Oblivion were what was left of the Ayleids.
We know elves in particular are rather easily transformed into different types of elf, from Aldmer to Chimer to Dunmer for one. Then there are the Orsimer or the Khajit.
What we have seen from the Falmer in Skyrim is also decidedly 'degenerate', compared to the archetypical beautiful lithe elf.

Perhaps the elven races easily deteriorate if proper precautions are not taken, such as selective breeding.

Although I also still think that the way the Altmer were described in the first pocket guide, with names being strings of numbers and widespread infanticide is mostly Imperial propaganda, similar to 'the pig children'.

In any case, even if those reports are true, maybe there is a very good reason for keeping the bloodlines pure.
Maybe they would all have been goblins by now without.

Like dreugh and those silver-skinned men in the black marsh, I think that the goblins are a pre-mer holdover from whatever inhabited Tamriel before the elf folk sailed from Aldmeris. When the Aldmer arrived at Summerset Isle, they had to fight the Sload. As I can't imagine that living under Sload rule to be particularly pleasant, I think that the more sentient members of the Goblin race would have formed an alliance with the new comer Aldmers. Since the Aldmers (and of course the Altmer) are vastly more intelligent than Goblins, they probably tricked the the lesser race and bread out any feelings of independence, free-thinking, betrayal and anything that even smelt of free-will.

As far a Falmer degenerating into Ricklings...no. I will refuse that theory to the end. It's not that I'm pro-elf, it just doesn't make any sense that a Nord would leave any Falmer alive to degenerate.

That theory for the most part has been widely refuted to begin with, so rest easy, the two are not the same. The Falmer being degenerates, well...thats a different story. Unlike the Dwemer who were just fazed out of existence, the Falmers decline is less mystical, so the fact there maybe be a few (Albeit crazed) running around in a isolated cave or two removed from society does not surprise me.

Whiskey-Sot, Dean of Origins, at the College of Winterhold.

I think that goblins are too widespread to be just degenerate Altmer. We've seen them all over Tamriel, and supposedly they're also in Akavir.

Under whose supervision do you think goblin breeding stopped? Only Tiber truly conquered Summerset, and I don't remember reading anything about the septims being particularly opposed to animals of war, or particularly progressive in their view of green-skinned slope-backed races. Plus, the goblins were no threat to anyone for so long as the Altmer navy was kept in check. Plus, we would have heard about it if the goblins were freed, since, judging by OB, their freedom tends to be rather violent. If they peacefully co-existed with the Altmer in a free and open partnership, we would have heard of that as well.

I recall some NPCs talking in Oblivion about how Altmer keep Goblin slaves.

Yes, they talk about things besides mudcrabs.

Right, because of all the complaining :biggrin:

I dunno, I think we would have also heard if the Altmer had a vast horde of goblins ready to be mobilized. Admittedly, I am not familer with the ins and outs of Tiber conquering the isles with numidium, and even though I never thought to ask, I was operating under the assumption that Tiber would have crushed any forces mobilized by the dominion, including Goblins, thus explaining we we don't hear about vast amounts of Goblins freed, co-existing with Altmer, or vast amounts of Goblins waiting in the ranks. Correct me if I'm wrong, please, I'm only here to learn.

Oh, OK, yeah. I get where you're coming from there. I also doubt that the Altmer had some vast horde of goblins, ready to strike at any moment and overwhelm the rest of Tamriel. The Empire wasn't exclusively run by total idiots after all. They probably restricted the armed forces of all the provinces. But, for example, there were still Knights in the Illiac bay, and those knights had warhorses.

SilentColosus says NPCs confirmed Altmer Goblin-Rearing, so I think that settles that.