Hello, people.

First, many thanks to DarkRider and the entire development team for this mod. I have been following the development of this mod in a while and now I decided to install it.

However, I have a small doubt.

I've downloaded this mod (November 2nd), version RC 1.0.3.

Once installed, Wrye Bash informs me that ReclaimSancreTor.esp file is version 1.0.2. And BOSS informs me that the file is also version 1.0.2 and also needs cleaning.

ReclaimSancreTor.espVersion 1.0.2Contains dirty edits: 309 ITM, 1 UDR records. Needs TES4Edit cleaning: http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/TES4Edit_Cleaning_GuideBash Tag suggestion(s): {{BASH: Actors.AIPackages, Factions, Relations}}

I have downloaded the file Reclaiming_Sancre_Tor_Esp_RC1_0_3-40757-RC1-0-3.7z from TES Nexus and the file Reclaim Sancre Tor Esp_RC1_0_3.7z from TES Alliance. Both files are identical.

My doubts are. Is the file ReclaimSancreTor.esp actually version RC 1.0.3, but whose version number has not been reflected within the esp? Is it necessary to clean it?

Thank you very much in advance for your answer. And I apologize for my English. I hope you can understand what I have written.

Yes the file is v1.0.3 and no you don't need to clean it its clean, I just didn't update the version internally. As for the 309 ITM edits can be cleaned. Between ver 1.0.2 and 1.0.3 I purposely avoided the render window thinking that would stop those from being attached again (kind of tired of cleaning them out for every version) but guess there's no avoiding it. If you're just getting started you might want to wait for version 1.0.4 coming out soon though, I've fixed a number of bugs since v 1.0.3. :foodndrink:

Unfortunately no, there's no way to avoid it. It does in fact need to be cleaned after each update. Tis just the nature of the beast.

Tis a silly beast. :rolleyes:

Do not fight, guys!

We're talking about Oblivion! We all feel the same measure of love/hatred to this "beast". LOL

Thank you very much for answering and clarifying my doubts.

By the way, I already I have installed RST. I'm in the middle of the course of the main story. So far, I have not had any problems. And I am greatly enjoying this mod!

@alt3rn1ty
I now recognize your "face"! LOL
Thanks for the Wrye Bash Pictorial Guide! Thanks to those guides, I now live in the paradise of modding Oblivion!

:thumbsup:

Don't worry, that's not fighting, that's jaunty agreement. I don't think Arthmoor and I have had our first fight yet. :lmao:

Glad you're having fun, thanks for playing! :foodndrink:

I knew I should have worn shades
Glad its still helping people.

I still havent started RST, chomping my way through the MQ at the moment, with Arthmoors major distractions in the form of villages along the way I think I am going to be late to the Skyrim party.

I have finished the MQ of the mod and didn't find any locational or gamebreaking conflicts when having SotD active, so it appears it's safe to keep it active (For those of you out there who claim I can't be a blade and MD agent at the same time: I'm not playing SotD with my character!!!). Same for some of the side quests. Very nice mod to play!

Is this normal though?

Any ideas?

@Trademark,

That is a bug set to be corrected very soon with the next update.

The problem stems from SotD allowing you to join the Mythic Dawn, who are vehemently opposed to the Blades and everything to do with them. Reclaiming Sancre Tor is an expansion pack aimed at expanding the Blades and what they did with themselves now that their position as Praetorians is no longer available.

Being a member of both at the same time would be really silly. And if SotD makes you carry out raids against the Blades or other tasks to weaken them or kill their members, you have a severe conflict of interests that would effectively force you to choose a side.

Working for both the Blades and the Mythic Dawn at the same time makes no sense in any way no matter how you wrap it, and that is why no patch is planned. Even if the mod doesn't conflict with RST at all, it is still effectively incompatible due to the above reasons, and those are conflicts that are impossible to patch out.

I did find one hard conflict when I was requested to test them together. I agree with TK that even trying to be both a Blade and a Mythic Dawn agent doesn't make sense.

I'm going to quote myself:


I'm just stating that there is no problem to have SotD active in your LO together with RST. It's up to the player wether or not they want to actually play both quests. I know they're incompatible storywise, I'm just talking about the technical aspects.

There is at least one hard conflict between the two. I would recommend against having SotD in your load order if you are running RST even if you are not playing a Mythic Dawn agent.

I already see what you mean, but that's no reason to disable either RST or SotD. If it would be considered a good reason to disable SotD I'm going to disable BC as well as the same logic can be applied there as well. There are two "hard" conflicts between SotD and RST. One being the conflict in the cavern you mention (which would take 5 minutes to fix or TCL) and a faction conflict. The other is a very minor faction conflict. RST modifies the disposition MD members have towards RST's Blades faction. Would also take about 5 minutes to fix, but isn't even neccessary if you ask me. So IMHO there is no reason why you can't have both activated. Neither mod is going to technically fubar the other.

If DarkRider wants I could even create a simple patch for both of those problems, it would only take max 10 minutes anyways.

EDIT: I think I've found a reasonable compromise. I've made a little esp which fixes the hard conflicts so you can have both mods active (Cavern fix + Faction fix). If however you join both the blades (RST's blades faction) AND the Mythic Dawn, you will suffer very heavy penalties (Weakness to everything + Silenced + Burdened + Weapon/Armor being damaged over time + PC takes Damage over time). That would teach the bastards who try to play both storylines at a time, but it no longer forces you to deactivate both mods. It gives a nice warning though. Saves me the trouble of switching Bashed Patches every time

Load order and mod setup is very much a part of the game, it goes hand-in-hand with your actually playing. Whenever I plan a character, I also plan which mods to use alongside him. For example, if I wanted a magic-disinterested thief or rogue, I would add expansions and mods designed to promote that gameplay and disable those that do not.

Every character gets a mod loadout unique to him (outside of my personal essentials). When mods present me a conflict of interests in some way, the mod that opposes my character's direction and style gets removed.

If its a simple conflict with a difficult fix (like the RST and Better Cities Waterfront conflict), I'll either wait for things to get sorted, or deal with it personally (and unofficially). Such interventions are often a hack-job, which is why I try not to do it, and never share them when I do. If the conflict goes beyond such simple problems (such as the conflict of interests between SotD and RST), one stays and one goes.

My load order is as much a part of my character as the guy in the savegames. That's the way I see it.

I'm of the mind that if the story arcs of two mods are completely opposite of each other, then patching them to work together is a huge waste of time since you can never play both story lines at the same time anyway.

Case in point. Off topic, so apoligies in advance. A Brotherhood Renewed and Dark Brotherhood Chronicles. You'd think both could be safely used alongside each other. There are only a couple of technical conflicts that could be patched in 5 minutes time. Surely since they're both DB mods there's no problem, right? Nope. Without spoiling anything, they simply can't be used together without some serious inconsistencies cropping up that would make no sense whatsoever.

That is the case for you, but I do things differently. I prefer my load orders to be mostly static, the less tampered with, the less damage that can be done. I've had plenty of different load orders in the past, but I no longer go trough the hassle to reconfigure my load order (and sort out the contents of my Oblivion folder -mesh/texture conflicts look really silly...). I have some "evil" mods active despite my current character being a real good guy. I don't do unique mod LOs anymore. I don't have to play them.

My point is that there is absolutely no reason why I can't have SotD active in my LO if I patch some very minor conflicts (In this case I have to move a few objects and add two faction disposition modifiers, that's ALL, no more conflicts). That's not a hack job, it actually fixes the technical conflicts. However you and some others still insist either RST or SotD has to go. Terribly sorry, but both are staying in my LO, they're not incompatible with eachother, only their stories are.

And we can even argue about that too. Players can decline to join the MD in SotD resulting in them becoming hostile again. I don't see how that would be incompatible with RST's story line. I did it like this: MQ > Finish off SotD > RST . So I guess it's kind of compatible story-wise as well.

If DarkRider doesn't mind, I'd even release my esp after he has had a look at it. All it does is fix the conflicts and punishes the player very very harshly if they do try to play both storylines.

EDIT: Once again people seem to be completely misreading (or not readin) my posts:
I did not patch story conflicts I patched the technical conflicts so both mods can stay active, I ONLY PLAY RST, but do not wish to adjust my LO

@ Arthmoor: You're right to a certain extent, but the mods you mention directly affect eachother story-wise, SotD and RST don't do that at all. So how exactly can inconsistencies occur? Feel free to point them out though...

Then go ahead and patch the conflicts yourself if that is the way you prefer. No one is stopping you from doing that, we are just trying to explain why such conflicts will not be addressed officially. That's all.

Well I already did Not very difficult considering there are only two

Huge HUGE one that I know will come up, because I distinctly remember it:

Will this conflict horribly with MOE's Mythic Dawn powers? My Bosmer assassin killed the Argonian slave, so as to pick off the cultists at his leisure, rather than all at once in a group, but in MOE, that completes the sacrifice and extends you a tiny portion of Daedric power.

Well there we have it, my posts are not being read or are being completely. misunderstood.

I will try to explain my position again. I'm just going to blame English not being my native language for any misunderstandings there have been. I do not intent to patch the sort of conflicts you mention. Those are pretty much unpatchable. I totally 100% agree with you on that. RST and SotD are as DarkRider puts it "diametrically opposed". I don't think anybody would be crazy enough to attempt to sort out those conflicts. It would take months, if not years to do so properly. Believe me, that is absolutely NOT what I want!


After RST was released I added it to my current load order, I intended to play as a "good" guy, a real supporter of the Empire and the Blades with absolutely no intention of ever joining the Mythic Dawn. I prefer to keep changes to my load order to an absolute minimum, don't fix what isn't broken. SotD is part of my load order and this apparently gets everyone's panties in a knot for some reason. I am being told to remove either RST or SotD.

I don't understand this sort of reasoning at all. Oblivion itself even has these incompatible stories. Fighters Guild Master and Gray Fox at the same time? That certainly makes a lot of sense *NOT*. People either choose to play the Fighters Guild quest or the Thieves Guild quest, not both. Why is it such a problem that I only want to play RST and IGNORE SotD completely? What exactly bothers some people so much that I want to keep both those mods active in my load order? I simply do not understand this.

Don't think I do not understand that some mods simply can't work together. I very well do, but this does not apply to RST and SotD. Sure, their stories are totally incompatible with eachother, just like the MQ is incompatible with the Dark Brotherhood Questline (IMHO), but one can simply opt not to play either one of them. That doesn't instantly mean I should just remove one of them from the game, does it?


So, can RST and SotD both be active at the same time? Yes, they most definately can! Are their stories compatible? Definately not! Can I play either the SotD quest or the RST quest just fine with both activated? Yes, assuming a cell edit is patched!


Take both mod's storylines out of the equation for the moment, just completely ignore them for a moment please. Are these two mods compatible with eachother? Yes, but there are two very minor conflicts that should be resolved.

1. Both modifications modify the Shadowrest Caverns, RST blocks access to a SotD quest target. This is so easy to fix with a simple esp patch.

2. Both modifications edit the Mythic Dawn faction, SotD edits the ranks and adds one disposition modifier. RST only adds a disposition modifier.

Those are the only two conflicts between SotD and RST. Both of which take a maximum of five minutes to fix. A unique landscapes patch requires MORE work than these two conflicts. My esp patches those conflicts so I can safely have both mods activated. I think you'll agree with me on that one.


Now once again, I realize all too well that the story of these mods is utterly incompatible, but once again, I make NO attempts to patch these. Furthermore if you read my previous post I mention that SotD offers the players an option to NOT join the Mythic Dawn, but instead turn hostile towards them. Once you cut SotD's quest short, the final update says:

Then I started to play RST, it fits in perfectly if you ask me!

So please, I didn't mean to offend anybody and sorry if I sounded rude, it was not my intention, but I got really frustrated because nobody seemed to be taking me seriously or even bothering to read my posts. That obviously results in a lot of misunderstandings (and even more frustrations). All my esp does is fix those two "game-level" conflicts I mentioned. In no way does it try to make the stories compatible.

*shrug* Fine. It's your game. There's more to compatibility that removing physical obstructions.

A lot of people keep throwing that in my face, but I don't see anybody pointing out anything concrete or specific. All people say is "iz incompatibelz, remove form LO nao!". Sorry, but I didn't get all my LOs running properly by blindly following everybodys advice. And I'm sure you didn't either. I need something to base my descisions on.

Okay, thank you everyone for the discussion on this issue. I'll say my peace and then let's put it to bed so the thread doesn't derail on it okay? :foodndrink:

Yes, it is technically possible for SotD and RST to coexist amicably in the same load order provided the player, as in Trade's case, makes a knowledgeable decision about where not to intermingle the two as they can cause some story/concept/locational conflicts. Glad you were able to find the happy medium for your character Trade :goodjob:

No, I will not authorize a patch that changes the faction settings as it's important in RST's MQ for the RST Blades to accurately aggress on the Mythic Dawn and vice versa and as of v1.0.4, there are faction checks in place for joining the Blades, players in the Mythic Dawn will not be able to play. I also don't want the responsibility of hand holding those people who ignore mod literature and dumbly try to play both mods to their full extent and then complain when things don't work or don't make sense, because let's face it, there's a section of players who will expect such a patch to fix everything regardless of what you say in the description line. "Oh I killed Capn Stevan and he was rsurrected to start RST that's whack!" I don't need that kind of headache. :rolleyes:

So, players are welcome to do whatever they want in their games. For my part, SotD and RST are diametrically opposed, and as Trade wisely pointed out, properly patching them to the extent necessary for a joe public release would be near impossible, best to leave it up to individual player choices for their LOs and stay out of it on the official side. :lmao: