do NOT use the so called "d3d9.dll fix" : Fallout: New Vegas

» Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:08 pm

You want to edit the Fallout_default.ini in the NV directory. That is the one the launcher will use in game.

Thanks! I remember you from the regular Fallout 3 forums. You were always a BIG help to me and a lot of others.

As for the .dll? It's helped me and a lot of other people and I've seen that feedback all over the place for both Nvidia and ATI users since there's a .dll for each platform.

In fact, I'll go as far as saying: I don't think I've seen an outright complaint yet about use of the .dll file from people who had problems and opted to use it. I certainly have not run across any horror stories like the tweakguides.com gentleman is alluding to. At least so far. *knock on wood*

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:08 am

Thanks! I remember you from the regular Fallout 3 forums. You were always a BIG help to me and a lot of others.

It is/was my pleasure.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:25 am

i am 47

been a gamer since the first tennis game..remember that ?,they use it as a joke these days.
i dont want to add up how many hours i spent trying to tweak hardware costing ￡50 to do what ￡100 hardware does.

BUT i can promise you this,20 years from now you will wish you had just gone out and bought a better graphics card or whatnot,instead of wasting all this time pissing about trying to squeeze a few drops of tasty goodness from an old sauce bottle.

just go buy a new bottle.

lifes too short.

then again,i could be fulla [censored],and you may want to waste all this precious time thats slowly ticking away.
theres no reload a save on life

ps...this card cost me ￡105 years ago and still havent found a game to kill it.

HIS [H487FN1GP] HD 4870 Fan 1GB (256bit) GDDR5 PCIe.

its running this game full bells and whistles at 1920x1080 with no lag or stutter with the latest ati drvs.

Right, or you are just not as sensitive to performance issues as others are. Furthermore I'm rocking a HD5870 so stop blaming my hardware or chosen settings.

I notice there's been some drama over my recent recommendation not to use the popular 'D3D9 Fix' for Fallout: New Vegas, and this bears some clarification. Firstly, apparently a newer version of the fix is available which only disables facial emotions instead of also altering the shader package used by some cards. While this is certainly an improvement, I still recommend using the ToggleEmotions (temo) console command, as this is a much cleaner temporary solution which addresses the same issue but also guarantees that no other changes are made. As for the long-term problems of using the DLL fix, the primary one is that of potential conflicts with future game patches. I'm certain that Fallout: New Vegas will be patched to fix this performance issue caused by the facial generation system, along with other bugs. However since it is a Steam-only game, patches are deployed automatically and without prior warning. For more advanced users this may not be a major concern, but I believe it to be undesirable for the average user to blindly follow the constant prompting to install this fix.

More broadly, this issue highlights the different schools of thought on 'tweaking'. As software and games in particular have become increasingly complex, my approach to tweaking over the past few years has turned towards being more conservative. My primary aim now is to fine-tune software while also minimizing the number of variables on a system which can be the source of problems. I've had a great deal of success with this approach over the years on a range of hardware. I've also provided evidence by way of dozens of gaming videos. Ultimately, if you're a 'performance at any cost' type of person, or you're only interested in quick fixes, then it's likely this site is not for you.

So this guy has it all figured out right ? you just use toggleemotions (which by the way does not do [censored] for my issues) it does not adress the same issue as the .dll and this guy is talking out of his ass. How do I know this ? The proof he provided for me by way of his awesome gaming videos.
Check out his youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/tweakguides, check the last 2 minutes of the fallout new vegas video. Not only has he somehow managed to make artifacting/lod issues and a general low quality of graphics appear out of nowhere his performance is still in the gutter during the combat outside of the casino. He's stuttering the entire way through that.

» Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:12 pm

Look at the specs in my sig. I ran into some issues without the DLL file. 60 FPS solid, run into 4+ NPCs, bam, framerate plummets into the 40s. I'm one of those people that has extremely sensitive eyes and can notice fluctuations of ~5 FPS without any problem. Even falling to 55 FPS is completely noticeable.

This is both a curse and a charm. While on the bad side, I can get frustrated with game performance, and on the other side, I can detect pretty minor changes. There are reasons I pour so much cash into my computer. For one, I'm an enthusiast, and second, I like smooth framerates consistently.

The framerate drops pre-DLL fix were unbelievably aggravating. While it took more to bring my computer down since it's got some rather hefty hardware, the problem was still there. The DLL fix completely resolved that. In addition to that, pre-Catalyst 10.10c, it also netted me some extra performance from the CrossFire configuration, assuming I was running the ATI version.

» Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:18 pm

Right, or you are just not as sensitive to performance issues as others are. Furthermore I'm rocking a HD5870 so stop blaming my hardware or chosen settings.

So this guy has it all figured out right ? you just use toggleemotions (which by the way does not do [censored] for my issues) it does not adress the same issue as the .dll and this guy is talking out of his ass. How do I know this ? The proof he provided for me by way of his awesome gaming videos.
Check out his youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/tweakguides, check the last 2 minutes of the fallout new vegas video. Not only has he somehow managed to make artifacting/lod issues and a general low quality of graphics appear out of nowhere his performance is still in the gutter during the combat outside of the casino. He's stuttering the entire way through that.

You can tell in his video that he is ok with frame rates dropping from 60s+ into the 30s. To me frame rate dropping more than 10 is unacceptable for a game as old as this. I dare him to use the same settings and make a video with his charcter attacking the NPCs inside the casino in Primm. The more NPCs present, the worse it gets. His frame rates will drop into the single digits.

» Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:39 pm

I just gave someone a link for that fix. Lol, theres nothing wrong with it at all.

» Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:10 pm

In all honesty, I think virtually everyone using a dx10/dx11 compatible card and windows7 is suffering from these issues to a certain extent. Some people are just more observant in terms of performance issues.
At first glance I thought I was running fine as well, and in most cases I am running at 60fps that is untill enough npc's show up. I noticed the first oddness during the tutorial quest when I was running behind the chick with the dog. After that it was the end of the tutorial that town battle was awful. And I finally noticed something was really wrong when I hit the casino in prim or the mojave barracks.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:24 am

the fix doesn't do crap for my geforce 9100M card and makes things worse causing flickering. actually the game runs fairly well on the lowest settings otherwise, haven't had a crash yet in 50 hours of play

You do know that mobile chipsets are generally not supported by any company that does games right? And the main reason why you had flickering and worse issues is because the DLL tells the drivers to use particular instruction sets which aren't available on mobile(laptop) cards.

As I pointed out earlier, it's quite possible that a DLL would be capable of messing with your cards auto fan speed settings, stopping it from cooling properly, and ending up cooking your card. I'm not saying that this happens, just that it's possible and something people should have been aware of and keeping an eye on before downloading something like this.

The only way the DLL could do that is if it was the driver for the video card itself, and even at that any video card made in the last 3 years has either automatic throttling or automatic shutdown built in in the even of thermal overload(aka getting too hot). A modified DX wrapper, which modifies the shader instruction set is incapable of doing that by virtue of it's location in the system ring.

» Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:06 pm

In all honesty, I think virtually everyone using a dx10/dx11 compatible card and windows7 is suffering from these issues to a certain extent. Some people are just more observant in terms of performance issues.

And I finally noticed something was really wrong when I hit the casino in prim or the mojave barracks.

me too, the casino in primm was the place for me too, before i tought i have no problems, most other areas were well until there.
something technical in this game is wrong and broken, no doubt about that!

bethesda said they are monitoring the threads so i hope they read this thread and this very annoying problem ist THE high priority issue for the next patch which appears soon hopefully, it is really needed bethesda!

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:30 am

I have found another solution for windows7 users, run a dual boot system with windows xp. My buddy who had the same performance issues using a similar graphics card had a dual boot going with win xp due to compatibility issues for some work related software.
He had the exact same issues I was having and managed to fix it by simply installing on his xp partition. Horrible fix for a dire situation but atleast we've both played the game at a locked 60fps like it should now.

» Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:41 pm

The DLL is a godsend... i mean, i went from running on the lowest of low settings and still getting HORRIBLE fps around many people to using the DLL and being able to crank the settings to high or ultra and being above 70 FPS.... its unbelievable really and bethesda should release a real fix IMMEDIATELY...

BUT that brings me to a bug I have discovered with the DLL. For me, using an 8800GTX, the DLL disables the games ability to use Vertical Sync as configured through the launcher. Even if you click the checkbox and turn it on IT WILL NOT be on. Only people who know what horizontal tearing looks like will be able to notice this. I kept shaking my head when I saw it like WHY am I seeing this cause i have vertical sync checked...

Then I loaded up fraps and I could see my FPS exceeding 60, which with vertical sync ON and a 60hz monitor IS IMPOSSIBLE! Yet I was getting up to 80 fps sometimes when the tearing was bad...

The solution is to force vertical sync on through the Nvidia control panel, there is no other way. Once I did this my FPS never went above 60 again which is how it should be.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:44 am

strange i have no tearing also with the dll and vsync is working.

best expample of the horrible problems vegas has with win7 is the great hall down in the vault 21 hotel with all the npcs, i have there 20 fps with my GTX480 with 260.99 driver!!!!
the casino in primm is similar.
with the dll fraps isent working and i cant check the fps but it is muuuuuuuch smoother there, must be at least 35, for me feeling even over 40 or more, it's not a big difference, it's a huge difference!
and no, the toggleemotions in console does nothing there without the dll, the guy at tweakguides.com tells complete nonsens.

if its true that all these problems are blown away as soon as vegas runs on an windows xp system, bethesda has to fix the win7 compatibility!
hey, its autum 2010, a full year after win7 release, i can't be a new game has so much probs with win7, please bethesda fix this!!

» Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:41 pm

Im starting to think the only people trying to get people not use this fix is the people who it didnt work for. I understand why they would be frustrated but I have an NVIDIA card and this DLL fix works perfectly for me and the game looks GREAT. Im not sacrificing NPC emotions, sorry

Oh and yeah, I am a sheep

I downloaded the .DLL right when the dude posted the thread on here the day the game came out and I've been enjoying my game with 60-70 FPS ever since. I've also put in 50 hours with no problems.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:41 am

I just installed this DLL fix after playing this game for a week . I did not know what I was missing. Now I can set it up to Ultra High and play it like it was meant to be played. Thank you to who ever made this for us. You should get a job working for the big game company's. It seem you are smarter then they are.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:22 am

Typing in "toggleemotions" only helps a little. Not only that, I think using the console keeps you from earning Steam achievements. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems to be the case with me.

The .DLL solution is a much better fix.

» Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:20 pm

Normally I like Tweakguides, but in this case he doesn't know what he's talking about. On release day, I couldn't play the game at all--I dropped from a disappointing 30 fps (when leaving Doc Mitchell's place) to an unplayable 15 fps when approaching the saloon. I tried every tweak going, with no improvement. On day 2, I read about the DLL, downloaded it, virus-checked it, and dropped it into the game folder. My framerates doubled (average 60 in Goodsprings), and the NPC-related drops disappeared completely. I tested extensively with and without the DLL for any difference in image quality (set to Ultra in both cases), and I can see no difference in my screenshots, except for the FRAPS number in the corner--much higher number with the fix in place.

I can say with complete confidence that the fix vastly improves the graphics performance with no loss of quality on my system (Vista 32, GTX460).

» Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:20 pm

I think some (most/all) of you guys missed the point of the TweakGuides post(s).
He wasn't saying that the .dll doesn't work, he's saying it's not a good solution and could be detrimental in the long run.

He's saying just using "temo" when you load your game is a much safer solution until Beth puts in a real fix.

» Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:37 pm

Sorry, I dont mean to be a troll but Beth should have already fixed it. I understand most bugs but this is a big one and its unacceptable, I mean it literally makes the game unplayable. I'm usually the one telling people to stop whining about bugs =P

» Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:55 pm

I love tweakguides.com, but the owner has always had a bit of an ego and a control freak. He does great work, but does not like when people disagree with him (LOL his forum). When I read that using "temo" could fix the FPS problem I immediately removed the DLL and tried it out. Yes it did help, but the game still slowed down significantly at certain points ruining my experience. Now for it dropping image quality, yeah that is annoying but I honestly haven't noticed. I'm sure if I did a comparison I would notice. I'll gladly take a slight hit on image quality for the ability to play the game smoothly. But I think the actual problem is how he stated the problem. He came off more like, don't use that fix, only follow my guides. But his most recent post helps clarify the issue. Ah, internet drama.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:54 am

You know who should be fixing this? Yeah...what the [censored] Obsidian?

It's no excuse for you either Bethesda, you've let this [censored] slide since Oblivion, and it's really unacceptable.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:05 am

oh yea, deleting negative posts is the only thing you good at. Stupid fourm.

» Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:01 am

The tweakguides guy is a moron.

Yes, in addition to being an egotistical narcissist.

His advice is often unfounded and asinine.

» Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:59 pm

Im starting to think the only people trying to get people not use this fix is the people who it didnt work for. I understand why they would be frustrated but I have an NVIDIA card and this DLL fix works perfectly for me and the game looks GREAT. Im not sacrificing NPC emotions, sorry

Actually, part of what is happening is that a too-large number of off-topic soreheads are using this thread to moan, rant, and whine, instead of carrying on with topical matters, which is asking for advice from other game players, and making suggestions in answer to requests for help. Plain complaints aren't on topic, and flaming isn't on topic, and the thread has ALREADY been thinned out at least once because of such uncivil behavior.

if its true that all these problems are blown away as soon as vegas runs on an windows xp system, bethesda has to fix the win7 compatibility!
hey, its autum 2010, a full year after win7 release

Beth should have already fixed it.

Yeah...what the [censored] Obsidian?

oh yea, deleting negative posts is the only thing you good at. Stupid fourm.

Yes, in addition to being an egotistical narcissist.

His advice is often unfounded and asinine.

None of those appear to be on-topic to me, and IMO, all should already have beeen erased, as was done to prior off-topic and unhelpful comments.

The Gamers are in HERE, in this forum, to do our best to play the game as well as workarounds allow us to, while awaiting permanent corrections, and this one works for most folks, so it's a good thing. For comp[laining, there is the support site and the Community Discussions, but flaming is also off limits in there. Whether Ghazi has ego problems or not isn't pertinent. It isn't on-topic.

» Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:42 pm

I think it's time to take this train wreck off the tracks.

Some of you will be hearing from me.