Hey folks :vaultboy:

I'm having two bits of trouble. First, the simpler one: what's the big deal about Illusion? Many on this forum have claimed that it's outright the most potent, tide-turning school of magic out there. Being that even my pure mages don't focus on Illusion (I prefer Destruction and Restoration most), I want to know what's so great about it and why I should try it. As it stands, I don't even plan on having my stealth characters invest in it, but I'm open for discussion and want to learn about it.

Secondly, I'm having a very hard time trying to figure out an ideal battlemage build. This problem is a little more complex.

See, I've got a dual-wield Khajiit. I focus on four skills and only have perks in those skills: light armor for defense and maneuverability (the wind walker perk is amazing!), smithing for obvious reasons, alchemy as my main means of recovery and to augment damage as well as status my enemies with paralysis (I love how easy that recipe is), and, obviously, one handed, with a focus on swords for DPS since they swing fastest and can have an increased crit chance, which is more balanced than axes or maces--not every foe can bleed and not every foe wears armor. I absolutely love him. And in case you're wondering, shouts and companions work as my ranged damage dealers, particularly against flying dragons (going to get Dragonrend soon, so I have even less to worry about). I could go on and on about my wonderful Al'Tair, but I'll only speak about what's relevant to my mage build.

So I noticed early on that I can and am getting great utility out of my skills because I'm focusing on only four of them; it gives me pretty good variety while at the same time not spreading me thin. My mage is somewhat similar, going through the game using only Destruction and Restoration, but this was more of something that I noticed rather than something I planned.

My question is, how do I make an ideal battlemage? I'm really eager to do so, and have already tried and failed (in fact, my first two characters were Breton and Dunmer battlemages that ended up terrible). I don't know what to do since there are so many viable choices, and I worry about spreading my skills thin.

First, offense. Obviously, I'm going to need one handed and Destruction, otherwise I'll just feel like a mage in armor or a paladin. But after that, it gets complex.

Secondly, crafting. Ideally, I want smithing AND enchanting, but there are problems with this. To best utilize smithing, I should invest in an armor tree as well--I think it would be a waste to smith just for weapons, as well as a waste to not improve weapons at all. Smithing must stay, and I'll drop enchanting for it if I have to.

Next defense. Armor or Alteration? With paralysis, magic resistance/absorption perks and other fancy things, it seems the obvious path, as well as enabling me to wear good mage robes (my current inspiration for a battlemage is actually that Dunmer in Thalmor robes with the Deadric sword during the loading screens), which would also be better than armor if i have to forego enchanting. However, armor has the advantage of constantly improving three of my skills--the armor skill itself, smithing, and my recovery skill (more on that later)--with very little micromanagement, unlike Alteration, and it wouldn't drain my precious Magicka pool (whose increases have to be shared with the other two attributes for an effective battlemage). On top of that, I can use high level armor as soon as I can find or forge it not only without penalty, but to my ADVANTAGE, which is the complete opposite of any magic school. If I use armor, it will likely be heavy; anyone is welcome to try and convince me otherwise, and we'll see what happens.


Finally (and probably fourthly, unless I have smithing AND enchanting), recovery. Restoration seems obvious, but that's another drain on my precious magic. With alchemy (something I never used in Oblivion but recently learned to love, since I refused to use magic with my Khajiit but still needed a way to recover), I can recover quickly and easily without interrupting battle (sounds cheap, I know), and it has many, many more advantages. I can recover my much-needed stamina without need for a perk while also recovering health and go right back into my power attacks or running, it can make me a lot of money (which Restoration obviously can't do), and I can status the crap out of my enemies; other than paralysis, I have little need to status with my Khajiit, but if someone uses melee AND magic, there's much use in weakness to magic/fire/etc. poisons. In fact, the advantages are too many fold, so I think I'm pretty set on having alchemy as my means of recovery instead of Restoration. If you think I should have Restoration, make your case, and make it a strong one.

An enchanting note: enchanted weapons will necessitate that I learn Soul Trap from the Conjuration tree, which is not something I want to invest in, for recharging. That, or I'll be in constant need of soul-trapping weapons. Also, if I have enchanting, I pretty much need an armor skill to make the best of it, which would mean several things: I'll be invested in all three crafting skills already (which both spreads me thinner and is overly powerful), I won't be using Alteration because of that, and even though I'd have some investment in Conjuration, it wouldn't be much since I'll be smithing my own weapons and want to go into battle sans summons. Overall, I think enchanting is out of the equation, which bothers me a little since it feels like the most battlemagey skill of all to me.

So there you have it, my whole dilemma. Beyond that, I suppose I could be a full mage who augments his offensive capabilities with one-handed weapons (but then I'll want smithing to improve them better...then armor...), or, more feasibly, I could be a full warrior who uses Destruction as an extra means of offense and Restoration to heal.

Please help me!

Illusion is stupid, because there are exactly two things Illusion does:

1. Be super overpowered against targets it can affect.
2. Be completely useless against targets it can't affect.

It can't affect half the enemies in the game until you reach 100 Illusion in the first place, and then levelscaling comes in and says "Oh, you're having fun with a character that took you 100 hours to create? No you're not, BAM!" and sets all the opponents to be immune to illusion forever.

I never used it before doubt I will ever in the game.

Yeah, I suppose I wonder about that. Still, I'd like to hear arguments from the other side, as well as discussion about the battlemage.

You can turn enemies on each other, stop them from attacking, make yourself invisible and silent... great bag of tricks.


Dual wield swords is ideal for melee damage however destruction is AWFUL. There is no reason other than pure aesthetics or possibly for the challenge. It does about 1/10 the damage of dual swords(no that's not an exaggeration). The best school for damage is conjuration as 2x Dremora Lords will wreck things and can also tank like bosses.


Smithing you want, you can go either way heavy or light but heavy results in less points spent as you need less invested in heavy armor perks and smithing perks. Daedric(best armor/weapons) is on the heavy side of things as well. Enchanting is essential as you'll need it to enchant +1h damage, -magicka cost and +magic resist. Alchemy also works extremely well as it lets you multiply the power of smithing and enchanting and only needs about 7 perks to work well.


Well both. Armor for your physical resists and alteration with a bit of investment gets you 30% magic resist. Enchanted armor is far far superior to robes for both defense and offense. As I mentioned above Heavy results in less perks to spend but light armor does have 2 advantages... 1 is better stam regen and 2 less weight. Both will get you to the 80% damage reduction gap.


Using dual words with absorb health + soul trap along with a black star can keep you relatively health and constantly keep it's charges full. Resotration is nice and really only needs 2 perks(novice+regeneration). This is also why going conjuration is so useful since you cast connjures at the beginning of a fight and your magicka is now free to only dump into recovery and doesn't need to be constantly used to deal next to no damage.


Enchant a weapon with soul trap. It can be your offhand weapon that you only swing when you need to trap something. You don't "need" enchanted weapons as the effects are that powerful other than the absorbs. You really should focus on improving them via smithing. Enchanting is a requirement along with smithing... the two are what make everything else you do worthwhile.

I will point out if you really really want to use destruction you'll require lots of -magicka cost so you cast your destruction spells virtually endlessly as unless your playing on very low difficult it will take a long long time to kill things.

The argument from the other side is always exactly the same in Skyrim: "Use Enchantment to break the game and you have no problems"

You make some interesting points, but I have a couple of problems with your proposition. Firstly, I disagree about Destruction. As I've said, that's what my mage specializes in, and it does wonderfully. I haven't had any problem obliterating enemies. Secondly, while you make the case sound as if I'll be ridiculously powerful, you're speaking a little too ideally--your proposition requires investment in too many skills, including both heavy armor AND Alteration. It's just not feasible, as far as I can see.

Any skill loadout is feasable, it just means you have twice as much to level.

Levels don't go down (not without spending way too much time in prison, anyway), so it's all an inevitable march towards 100 ranks in every skill, really.

Anyway, the way that Illusion works, the perks you get make it possible for you to affect basically all the enemies in the game with their spells.

Their spells basically make it so that you can Calm enemies, making them stop attacking you, or you can Rage enemies, making them kill each other for you while you munch on popcorn and watch. Whoever whens the melee, you just Calm, and either walk away, or else backstab, calm again, backstab again, etc. etc. etc.

Because they are all-or-nothing, and have no randomness, if it works once, it works every single time.

Anyway, if you want destruction to be powerful, I have a recommendation for you: stop leveling up right now. The more you level up, the more health your enemies will have, and your spells aren't going to get any more powerful once you have all the perks.

Illusion is handy for crowd control, don't use it that much though.

If you go smithing + enchant with -100% destruction magic cost, you're going to be very OP. No two ways about it. You won't need to get half of the destruction magic perk tree as they deal with lowering magicka cost. You won't need all of the resto perk tree either, prolly could get away with just the two skills. If you're wearing Armour then there is definitely no point in getting the alteration tree.

Personally I'd suggest you don't get smithing or enchanting, and make a pure mage with whatever magic skills you want. Least you will have a challenge.

But do whatever you want. I wouldn't worry about making the "best" character.

I play battlemage with the following:

Conjuration
One handed
Illusion (until silent casting)

Some of these:

Smithing
Enchanting
Archery
Alteration

Yeah, be fully aware that this game has no balance at all. Trying to make a "strong" character will leave you killing everything in one hit. You pretty much have to go out of your way to tie one hand behind your back to keep the game giving you a challenge of any sort after a while.

I mean in terms of perk investment; I know all that already. Thanks, though :foodndrink:

And for those of you making mention of having a "best" character, I'm not concerned with that; I'm concerned with fun. I love battlemages.

Yea they should have nerfed enchanting instead of destruction? :celebration:

Drop Illusion. It's effective against enemies you can best with a puny sword or fire spell and completely not effective against the enemies you'd wish it would affect. Also, I am playing a custom tailored build, which is primary a mage and so far very viable and flexible.

Do note, I am using Lydia in the earlier levels before I can come to a point where I believe my build can survive on his own. Also note that I always first lay the foundations of my perks, meaning when I decided which skills I will use beforehand, I will invest every following perk in every tree initially to get me started and build a foundation for my character.

Build:

- Destruction
- Restoration
- Conjuration
- Light Armour
- One-handed

Attribute distribution:

100% Magicka. No investing into HP or Stamina. Using the Shrine of Arkay for a 25+ HP boost in Whiterun from the Hall of Dead. If correct, every other city has this shrine in their Hall of Dead.

I will explain this more probably here below:

Destruction:

You probably don't need anything here. I simply use a flame spell for close quarter combat in my left hand. What the right hand does, you will discover further down below. I don't specialize in Frost/Shock and so far has served me well. I use fireball in BOTH hands to become a semi-automatic fire dispenser. This is rather useful on dragons, shooting into the air whilst Lydia uses her bow.

Restoration:

Since I don't invest into HP at all, I find the starting perk more than enough to suit the basic Healing spell you obtain at the start of the game. You can choose to specialize or not, but for me, it isn't important.

Conjuration:

This refers to the Destruction. I always use conjuration to summon a sword/battleaxe/bow depending on my needs. I usually summon a sword when I am involved with humanoid or tougher beast races roaming Skyrim. Do note that I am never using this as my primary attack, I always use the flamethrower spell first, until I either spend my Magicka or they are too close for my liking. A simply power attack will stagger them so you can back away and keep that heat up.

I do admit, I have killed the first dragon when he was almost slain and it performed that sick animation of driving that bound sword multiple times in his cranium. I also usually reserve the final HP of an enemy with two quick strikes of my enemy, in order to conserve Magicka and look all bad-ass.

A second use for Conjuration is summoning of, you guessed it, entities. Be it animals or full blown Dremora Lords, these will serve you well and help you faster achieving that independent lifestyle as they will be proper tanks. I currently don't have much experience with this but most likely I will be utilizing it more often later in the game.

Light Armour:

First and foremost, I still use a robe as my main piece. This is due it's recovering nature. I also obtained a simple 'tiara' that cuts 12% of my Destruction consumption, VERY helpful. I augment myself further with gauntlets and boots, in order to raise up the skill bit by bit. My intention here is that as soon I get a full Elven gear, I will be wearing this indefinitely. This suits being more independent and probably ditching a companion to solo. This levels up on it's own when you get hit, so it's really passive.

I already invested another starter/basic perk into the tree to get that 20% bonus on my existing Leather gear.

One-handed:

Real simple. When the enemy gets too close, wack at them. Try to dodge often and evade those slow but terrible power attacks. Since I never invest into HP, this is a very important asset to me. I also have one perk sitting in this tree to get that lovely 20% extra damage on opponents, very useful when they keep getting stronger.


I hope all of this has helped you! Let me know if you have feedback or further questions!

Just my 2 cents worth on battlemage. In my view a battle mage, especially in a team situation which we have in skyrim with our companion, can be used to their fullest advantage. Work on restoration to heal yourself and your companion since they will be your tank. As a battlemage you want to be somewhat in the back ground casting spells of destrucion and conjuration while your tank is doing the dirty work. You will want to also cover one handed to free your other hand for these spells and kick the opponents butt if they happen to break through. Sneak and archery are also important to battlemages, ranged weapons play a huge role, and since you wont be spending a great deal on endurance sneak not only gives you power to kill with more damage from distance but also gives you 100 extra carrying weight, and makes you near on invisable. Archery gives you the opportunity to fish out opponents unless you already killed them in the first archery hit in sneak, as often happens, it also alerts your companion to start attacking. Use your fire spells, lightening spells and runes to assist you in destruction, Ive found the runes invaluable when sneaking up on opponents, I can drag them out with an arrow and kaboom! All good fun. Try not to limit yourself to just a few perks, and dont overspend either, you need to find a balance, spend up on your choice perks looking up to the end of the branches to see what you really want to achieve, ask yourself if its really work spending on that perk. There are a number of perks in the above mentioned skills I havent bothered with, at the end of the day only spending on four perks, your still going to be left with 30+ by the time you have spend your inital ones. Being a battle mage you can have your own little army of atronarchs dremoras and companions you will be in happyville with staffs and spells.

Thanks for all the wonderful input, folks :celebration: This has got me thinking a lot. Keep it up! I want to know what people come up with :toughninja:

illusion is more for fun then anything else, they removed so much of it, command was great for gaining an ally mid battle.
now its just a bioshock wana be. and like bioshock it was only good for fun sins most are immune anyways.

A battle mage would work by focusing on block, one hand (manly a mace for the cleric look), restoration, destruction, heavy armor alteration and enchant.

block: shield give you a lot of cool blocking move and a nice 50% resist of magic when blocking it and you can block at all times.
if you use a ward shield you get a great magic blocker ans a ok every thing else blocker and your ward burns magic fast so no castign and blocking if the fight go on to long. but you get ward absorb from the restoration also you can enchant a ring to lower restoration cost to cast ward more.

armor: heavy armor is gona be needed sins you will be a front lines fighter unlike stoneflesh the armor rating is alway applied and you can wear a full set at low levels but no real defense from magic. so blocking is a must.

alteration will give you your magic protection 30% block to magic damage and absorb 30% to refille your mana, but not much out side the mage armor for melee attacker so this mite be good to second your heavy armor and not replace it.

restoration: heal you and others with you or cast the ward a must for the battle mage. you will take more damge then a mage cause of your melee so you will need to save half of your mana for heal and put a point in the 50% more heals as soon as you get it.
how you will be attacking.

one hand: it will allow to attack when the mana is low, use the mase so all enemy take the same damageven if there wearing armor. and allows you to block with your shield or ward wile fighting. its your fall back so you can continue fighting without mana and still kick ass

destruction: is why your still called a mage, its your range attack and your starter or finisher, and like one hand only put perks on one type of magic frost is good, it will stare enemys and prevent power attack and paralyzes, fire stacks damage and most enemys are weak to fire vamp, trolls, etc. shock it great for taking down a mage with its mana drain. sins you only get like 80 points for perk you will not be able to build axe, sword, mace, fire, ice and shock and build the battle mage other skill in full so just pick on of each you like. also dont put any points in duel casting for any magic skill the battle mage is a one hand,one shield fighter.

enchant will allow you to make your melee weapons and heavy armor more powerfull and allow you to put two enchantment on all your gear so you can put the regen mana on all your armor and can still have other enchantment on them too. this makes going ward shield only but putting restoration cost less enchant on every thing your wearing so it cost notting to cast.

this is a true battle mage half warrior half mage, a good balance of both attack and defense from melee and magic

rise magic then health when leveling up and repeat till level 100 you should have 600 in both by then

and that how you build the battle mage.