You're a noble knight, you support the Empire and all that it stands for. You have destroyed many Oblivion gates and offered a lot of aid to the Imperial forces and the Blades. You would give your life for the Emperor and his sons. You would hunt down all the Mythic Dawn members once you find out their location. Where you walk, evil dies. You are considered a champion by the good people of the Empire and bards sing of you.

After having ended the Oblivion Crisis you are approached by a shady-looking hooded man. He tells you that the Mythic Dawn is not yet defeated and asks you what it would take for you to join the Mythic Dawn instead of fighting for and protecting the Empire. What would you answer be?

IMy COTD mod is supposed to be played after the MQ since tapping into the main quest would break compatibility with A LOT of mods. I want to give good characters a good reason to "turn to the dark side and help the MD instead of the Empire".

As both my character and I despise any empire we would never work for such a thing. But if we did against our will, maybe we could be persuaded to switch side.. :ninja:

What mod is this? Is it voiced?

On to your question:

I am a knight and respect order. Collaborators and rebels against this order make me sick. For example, those Righteous and that Saint in Windfall. I wish I could have burned down their homes and crucified them in their own streets. If the Mythic dawn can prove to me that I can be a part of an order that is greater than mine, and that I will have plenty of opportunity to stomp rebels and anti-police hooligans, and that I can get away with it because I have moral superiority, then yes I will join the Mythic Dawn.

You think a noble person is righteous because they are better everyone else? No, think of what that same person would do if they wouldn't be caught or wouldn't be punished. Prove to me that Mehrunes Dagon is a better god than Akatosh, and that the consequences for my actions will be justified because Mehrunes' order is the superior order, and that I will end up smelling like a rose in the end.

On the topic of mods...

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=6855 allows you to join the Mythic Dawn after the Main Quest and flesh out a more nefarious character if you so choose.

On the opposite side of the equation, http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=40757 allows you to continue your good aligned characters after the MQ's conclusion.

To answer your question, Velmenian, notoriously non-Bosmer, would probably give that messenger a lightning bolt to the face. Having seen first hand what kind of rituals surround the Mythic Dawn, he gives no quarter to them anymore.

It would take convincing me that they're actually the good guys. Or possibly a very bad thing that'll happen if I refuse - some kind of hostage situation, perhaps.

How about this:

I would sign up to bring the Mythic Dawn down from within. I would slowly become convinced that they had been right all along, and I had been working for the forces of evil (the Empire). Then I would become the most ardent cultist they had ever seen, since it was my fault that evil triumphed in the first place.

I guess the harder part is why the MD ever approaches me as a recruit, since bards are singing of my righteousness, etc.

Thanks for the replies so far.

It's about my mod, see my sig. The problem with my mod is that it is played AFTER Oblivion's MQ for compatibility reasons. Interrupting the MQ half-way would cause many problems I wish to avoid. However this presents a problem. The player is forced to save the Empire first and run all sorts of errands for the Blades. I need to give the player a feasible believable reason to join the Mythic Dawn after having saved the Empire.


Mhm this could possibly give me something to work with. Minor alterations to the MQ so that even evil players have a good reason to finish it. Something like a MD member contacting you telling you of some prophecy that must be fullfilled in order for the MD to REALLY prosper even if it means fighting against it now. This specific member may be operating in complete secrecy or does not believe Mankar Cameron has what it takes or whatever. That way the eventual "Champion of Cyrodiil" would merely be a pretender and working for the MD all along. It may be against the will of an evil player to save the Empire first and go trough all the trouble, but if the rewards after that are great.... Mhm.... Interesting


Unvoiced on release since I do not have the proper equipment available to record high quality voices.

What do you mean with "an order greater than mine" exactly? I tihnk I get the concept.


I'm well aware of those modifications, I've played SOTD extensivly multiple times. But IMHO the way you join the Mythic Dawn is not really something you'd easily buy.


A bad thing that will happen? Mhm, yes this is possible of course, but I'm not sure what that bad thing would be then. Besides, loyalty which is based only on fear is something I think will not work in the long run.


That would be possible to a certain extent. Like for example during the main quest you have to read some MD literature which would give you some initial doubts, the words of Mankar Camaron fill you with even more doubts. After ending the Oblivion Crisis you have time to think about what you have done, you never had the chance to do that. Maybe some quest pop-ups during the MQ? i.e. "I have read this Mythic Dawn book bla bla, maybe the Mythic Dawn is right, but this is not the time bla bla etc.".

Hahahahaha... <<========<<<< diabolical laughter

"Who set this fellow up?" would be my avatar's first thought. "It must be some sort of perverse joke. Or maybe it's some poor soul who's lost his way en route to a village idiots convention." My avatar is a well known commodity. Heck, if remnants of the Mythic Dawn do exist in an organized form, his homely mug graces their dartboards from Skyrim to Elsweyr and all points in-between. Anyone not born under a rock knows the gist of his response to such a confrontation. <<=======<<<< diabolical writing

That said, he might choose between several possible courses of actions. He most definitely would not on his own volition attempt to infiltrate the organization. He might well play along, stall for time, report this new development to the Council. Only then would he infiltrate the cult, with the Council's blessing and backing. Would Mythic Dawn agents worth their salt be fooled by such a deception? They'd have to be awfully stupid gullible.

Or he might lure the fellow into a trap and deliver him to the Council. Circumstances allowing, violence would be a last resort. My decrepit avatar remains a reluctant killer, despite the oceans of blood on his hands.

But sincerely join the Dawn? The very idea is preposterous. My avatar does not, as recent events have shown, always see eye to eye with the Council. Should he ever lose faith with the Council it would not diminish his allegiance to Empire but only its current leaders. Should those officials prove themselves traitors he would strive to thwart them himself by what he considers honorable means rather than associate with known agents of evil.

-Decrepit-

I understand and sympathize with your challenge and have thought quite a bit about it. Alas, I fear I must agree with Decrepit. In my humble opinion, the mental gymnastics required are a bridge too far. To jam the round peg Champion of Cyrodiil into the square hole of the Mythic Dawn is akin to trying to justify the ArchmageGrayFoxSpeakerDivineCrusader. As I said, a bridge too far that, if attempted, would positively reek of simply a convenient compromise.

He would have to allow my evil character to sacrifice the rest of the Mythic Dawn, Including ol' Dagon himself, to Sithis.

Depends what character i'm playing on.

Hunter was a hero, but that was only for personal gain of having the Title has 'champion'. If following the evil path would gain him an even greater amount of power and respect... well then he's set.

However my new DiD + Roleplaying character, although i've only just met her, might disagree. I'm not 100% sure on her views of the Empire yet, but i have a feeling she supports security and feels they can provide it.

I do not see any of my current characters becoming willing servants of Mehrunes Dagon.
My Nords might consider it, if it was pitched as a fight for Shor against Arkay and Alduin.
A Sheogorath may do it just for the irony.

I'd have to agree here, as well. You have destroyed their shrine, killed their leader, and stopped their revolution. What kind of group would want such a person in them at all? If anything, the Dawn are now sworn to vendetta on you.

The only way to really make this work is to intercept the main quest at Dagon Shrine, allowing you to enter the cult then with your first task being the assassination of Martin Septim. You may have caused them a bit of grief so far, but they would be willing to forgive in exchange for the Emperor's life. Joining them would mean expulsion from the Blades and being locked out of the Main Quest altogether, and that's the only way I can see this happening. Champion Camoran's Disciple just doesn't work; it will never compute.

Because the Champion was Sheogorath all along, obviously.

But even Sheogorath has nothing to gain from siding with the Dawn.

Also, Mr. Mythic Dawn sounds like he just volunteered to be sacrificed to Sithis...

I mean order as in order itself. The emperor is emperor because order placed him in that role. Order itself named me its enforcer. And those paupers on the street are poor because they deserve it. When those pot-smoking hippies come with their signs that ask for more than they deserve and to be treated as equals it makes my eyes narrow in disgust. They are protesting against the universe itself. Because they smoke their pot and believe that a golden age will emerge if the whole world smokes pot together.

As I watch these scumbags from my keep I ask myself "Is it right that authority must protect EVERY citizen of the empire?" These pusilanimites should be sprayed with mustard gas and scattered like ants. What have I saved Cyrodiil for if it continues to be a slime pit of scumbags who have a sense of entitlement? If I had things my way there would not be such chaos because everyone would wear badges or tattoos to distinguish them, or some other form of label. Unfortunately, as a knight my place is not in legislation.

It has been bothering me for some time, and I've stopped going to church. I just don't feel comfortable in a world of Akatosh. Let's get this right: I saved Cyrodiil. And what do they say? Praise Akatosh! It makes me very angry every time I hear it. In fact, I think I will accept that messenger's request and hear what my broken enemy has to say.

Maybe I'm reading your post wrong but it sounds to me like you're implying that characters who oppose the Empire are "evil." If this is the case I disagree. I believe that a good argument can be made that accepting and aiding the Empire is evil. And that opposing Imperialism in all its forms and manifestations is "good."

Personally I see the Mythic Dawn as anologous to, say, USA's Weather Underground or Germany's Red Army Faction: organizations that were born out of legitimate dissatisfaction with the status quo but which, over time, became corrupted. Few of my characters, no matter how strongly they opposed Imperial aggression and no matter how much they might sympathize with Dagon's or Camoran's claims, would condone assassination.

In fact I see neither side as "good" in the story Oblivion tells.





I don't see it that way. Fantasy narratives are full of challengers-to-power who kill leaders and who are then accepted as the new leader of the tribe or organization. The Mythic Dawn, it seems to me, has some Fascistic tendencies: rule by force, founded and directed by a charismatic leader, ect. If this is the case and if the player could demonstrate his or her own charismatic leadership abilities I think it would be perfectly acceptable to imagine that the Mythic Dawn would accept this alpha male or female as its leader.





You didn't save Cyrodiil. Martin saved Cyrodiil. You helped Martin to save Cyrodiil. If all this had happened in the real world (or at the very least in a logical world) that statue in Bruma would depict Martin, not you. Historians would push Martin to the forefront when they wrote their histories of the Invasion. Historians like to tell simple tales and they like to pin one face to an event to make things easy to understand. In their telling, this would be Martin's victory. Our characters would be of interest mainly to scholars of the period.

Our characters are proclaimed Champion of Cyrodiil not because they are the Champion of Cyrodiil but because this is a video game. The developers feel they need acknowledge and reward the player in some way, even if that acknowledgement and reward does not make any real-world sense.

It's not just you simply killing their leader. I'd think they might also take into account the fact you killed dozens of lay members escaping their lair (weakening them in the process) and halted everything they were working towards for the past several years. I'm pretty sure that after taking all that into account they might have one or two problems accepting my leadership. :flamethrower:

The Mythic Dawn are trying to save the world from a greater threat. One that would break the cycle of ends/beginings, thus having worse consequenses than even the destruction of the world. Because that's only once.

So it wouldn't be changing my ways really, just another way of doing the same thing. Just maybe a little darker. :unsure2:

As always, it depends on the character. I've only had 2 characters which did this questline

Igodah Go^Pe, my deceased high elf mage, might have seen if she could infiltrate the MD, because she wasn't always a "good" character. I dont' know if she would have actually joined, or what...that all depends. But she'd be curious.

Beujock the Grey Wizard would have done the "right" thing, whatever that is. He's got a big big ego, but he usually did the right thing, for the better of the Empire as a whole.

...but who knows. It depends what the Mythic Dawn had in store I suppose :shrug:

The promise of power.