faction wise:

lately the bos have been friendly. I thought they were supposed to be [censored]s who would ask "technology or i shoot you and take it from your incapacitated body or corpse"

That raiders just want to kill you. What's the point in that? What happened to capture and sadistic torture? Why do they ignore that the wastelander has some nice items or a nice body?

Why cant the player be like a raider? Why cant i walk up to an npc (injured or otherwise) and take him prisoner or take his stuff? Why cant i get a crew to pin them down or intimidate them while i search them? Could i ask politely for some food?


Why are there no feral humans? Why is cannibalism only refrenced and never seen? Why are ghouls so often the good guys? Why does the game make me pro ghoul? Surely the game should try and make me hate people (without bad voice acting and character animations)


There needs to be toilet drinking animations

The game needs to become scary. More so than bioshock but probably less than amnesia.
Much like the player fearing deathclaws and sadistic raiders- people need to be able to fear the player. If someone realises they have no way to defeat the player then they should act like it!
When a character dies they should not ragdolise instantly like in the past few fallouts. They should have a death animation that maybe makes the player feel bad for killing them. sometimes they should not die straight away but fall to the floor and have blood drible from their mouths whilst you can search or talk to them.

Which Fallout game are you talking about?

F1, F2, F: Tactics, F3, or F: New Vegas?

Many people do not like scary games and you likely see many people complain that the "game is too scary". I kind of like the last part though; and it would be awesome if an NPC didn't die right away after you blew their arm off. They would kind of just crawl on the ground and the game lets you decide whether or not to end their misery.

Fallout is not supposed to be a horror game though, although I welcome some aspects like that. But I don't want Fallout to be too serious either, I don't want the humor to disappear, that is a big part of Fallout.

On the point of raiders, don't you think the most effective way of stealing what some travellers got is to shoot them in the head and then dig through their pockets? Isn't that heartless enough for you? Do they need to capture a family alive, hang the man upside down, [censored] his wife and daughter infront of him, cut off his [censored], gauge the women's eyeballs out and then light them on fire? Well, I guess some psychos could do that (I guess the Fiends do), but I don't call that effective raiding Did the raiders in Fallout 3 actually raid?

The last part there is true. I'd like if you could shoot down an enemy, and they'd lay there caughing blood and pleading for their life when you walk up to them. If you sever a leg, they wouldn't die instantly, they'd fall to the ground in horrific screams of pain, holding the stump, or try and crawl away. I'd think it could have something to do with morale aswell, because I wouldn't like to face a badass enemy (boss or something) and have him cry on the ground. He could scream in both pain and anger, draw a sidearm and try to kill me again.
I think the running animation for fleeing enemies should be different from the normal running animation aswell. It should be more... panicked. And if you have hurt them (maybe even cut off an arm), they'd try to run as fast as they can whil clearly being in pain (and if without an arm, getting weaker and weaker until he falls to the ground, moves a little and then dies)

I agree with Sebor13, what Fallout are you talking about?

Fallout 2 you can be a slaver and both Fallout and Fallout 2 you can kill anyone. Death animations are pretty awesome in those games, and with bloody mess, well it's a bloody mess, that goes for Tactics as well. Fallout 3 has a slaver option but it wasn't as awesome as Fallout 2's.

You can role play a raider in any of the Fallout games, but for Tactics.

Also I don't understand why people think the BoS is all about killing for energy weapons and other tech. They don't kill you in Fallout or Fallout 2 for that reason. They aren't even in Fallout 2 in any significant numbers.

The raiders your talking about are known as weak, sadtistic raiders like the Jackals. The Khans in the first game were a strong and they had more morals then taking apart their enemies for the hell of it type of raiders. I would like some type of Viper faction to come next, since, they use stealth and worship some form of religion (The latter gives some pretty awesome lore that the first two games never exploited.). It would make the game way more immersive if it's raining and your being stalked by a two man raiding party.

Sorry man, Vipers and Jackels got wiped out as a major threat during FO-FO2 by NCR and BoS :flamethrower:

I'm talking about a faction that is like the Vipers, raiders that use stealth and worship stuff.

This irks me as well. I don't know how the hell people get that from any of the games.

Pertaining to the OP: I would also like some differentiating death animations. Seeing someone cry out and hold their bleeding stump would be very entertaining. Other than that, yes Fallout should be a little more brutal but not necessarily in the ways you described.

It is 200+ years past the Great War so well past the post-apocalypse. How things in New Vegas are seem to be rather fitting for the time. Fallout 3 was a bit too post-apocalyptic.

In my plays of FO3, and limited bit of NV, I've come across Raiders (Fiends, Jackals, etc.) who've ran when I've beaten them up enough. I don't necessarily always go for them since they mostly have things that I don't really need or want to sell, but I do think a bit more savagery in FO wouldn't hurt.

That kind of behavior is not sustainable in the long run. Cannibals, savage raiders, and feral humans would die out within a few generations. Either they'll die out due to their self destructive lifestyle or they'll be wiped out by more civilized societies.

Not all of the BOS are like that such as the splinter factions seen in FO:3 and Tactics. You can clearly see that side of them during the Operation: Anchorage DLC, though. Basically, they just want to use you to complete the simluation, and even talked about just killing you and cutting off your arm for your Pip Boy to access it! Then after you finish it, and the Paladin wants to give you some of the stuff, the rest of em try to kill you because of it. Thats the real BoS attitude right there.

Now as for the raiders, I'm pretty sure the wastelands are a place that will kill you for mistakes. Unless they can tell you're weak, why would they bother capturing you? If your even remotely armed a smart person would take you out at range and then search your corpse instead of risking that effort to capture you. Also, Raiders really don't need to capture people. The definition of "Raiding" isn't capturing, seriously, it means basically killing and looting passerby's.

I think its rather the opposite, as each area portrays the ghoul and humans at odds quite well and from different perspectives. By the way, the game is NOT pro ghoul in the slightest. FO: 3 gives you alot of options to slaughter them.

As for the cannibalism, your right, it is never seen, unless you commit it. The Family might, but I haven't been around them long enough to notice it.

As for making the game scary, its not supposed to be. Honestly I think being surrounded by 10 feral ghouls and hearing them all screech at once and watch your Sneak turn to Caution is terrifying, especially on a character without heavy armor and no way to take out a bunch charging at once. But its a game about survival, this is not Dead Space.

I completely agree in the area of enemies running off. I don't really think enough of them take off when facing me or even a Deathclaw. They should obviously know that after I wiped out their leader and 5 of their fellow raiders that they're dead meat. Also, it would be pretty hilarious to watch people running away from Deathclaws.

And lastly, I don't really think the deaths need any tweaking.. Exploding heads, flying limbs, blood spurts, what else do you want? Technology only goes so far right now, its not as easy as you'd think.

Last night I started thinking about what I would like from the prior titles and what I felt was missing and I think this topic fit. I don't think it's a question of savagery, I do think that the core psychological attributes that you're alone, with limited resources, in a big wide man made hellhole seem to be missing recently in these Fallout3+ titles.

1.) No map travel, sense of scale is different compared to other Fallout titles. These recent titles feel *so* *much* *smaller*. There are no random encounters/sites as they existed in earlier titles as there isn't map travel (in the same sense as prior titles). You need a global map (for random encounters and for true sense of scale) and a local map (equivalent to what you have now) to pull this off. Don't misunderstand, I wouldn't want you to have the same amount of content in the local map as you do now, just break up the outlying environments into separate local maps to which we could navigate to via the world map. The survival skill could really come into it's own by determining how successful you are at a whole range of things during map travel.

2.) Too much ammo. Too many weapons. Too many other resources. Can probably cut back on the degradation a bit after removal to get balance right. Obtaining/having a quality firearm should be much more rare, ditto for quality armor (actually armor is pretty close to being balanced except for BoS restocking). As it is, firearms rain from the sky. Energy weapons should be much more rare than they are. Most of this is due to re-spawns, please cut or change that too. Earlier titles had much more experience from quests than killing. I can level up from 1 to max level right now without touching a quest past the introductory area.

3.) I miss the quirky text descriptions of (mostly inanimate) objects in earlier titles, those really added to the atmosphere... need to think about how to bring this back. Maybe you could integrate it as hovertext of some sort. That's a bit kludgy though. May have to scrap this.

4.) Something is missing from most quests. Desparation? Quirkyness? Dark humor? Same attributes are missing from player's solutions.

5.) Smaller communities should have a reason for existing. Even small communities should offer end game relevance in some fashion. Hate to break it to you but unless you have something to offer, aren't totally self-sufficient, and totally rely on tourists/caravans taking a pit stop along the road (especially in their world) then you probably won't survive (e.g. Novac, Primm, Goodsprings, etc.). No, none of those communities struck me as self sufficient. Besides, from a development perspective, you don't want to create one-off's that only serve a single purpose.

6.) Everyone looks the same. Even grandma's got a smoking hot body. If not for the horrid texture, so would female ghouls. Same thing for males: Gizmo's don't exist.

7.) Charisma/2 = max number of followers. Sorry, but I would like to have much more dangerous encounters and more muscle on my side.

Couldn't agree more, actually. :thumbsup:

I think it would be a hard sell if running around in a raider gang was a major component of the game - Marketing would scream!

But I do agree that the BOS need to get their "bollucks" back.

Agreed, I want to [censored] chop on some meat rests I found in the wastes. The whole survival and fight for live feeling has to raise.

My answer: WE NEED A PREQUEL.

Look at New Vegas. Society has slowly began to rebuild. A prequel would prevent that and there would be only a few villages. Cities would be nothing but huge raider camps.

A Prequel to Fallout? So you're idea is to completely recant all the Fallouts by making it so Shady Sands never formed and therefore never became NCR, which made most of the West up to the Mojave civilized?

One thing I forgot to add in my earlier post.

8.) Re-spawns do not make an area seem "alive". (I've killed how many fiends? Just how many are there?) This also fits with separating out the random encounters (the only part of the game where *random*, not deliberate, spawns should be placed) into random maps/encounters. Our actions should have consequences: good, bad, or strange/unintended in non-random areas.

Do we want to wipe that small encampment of "raiders" out? Have we actually seen them raid anything? Has anyone told us they have? Are those people lying? Does destroying the gang's "war" fetish neuter their desire to raid and to start cooperating with the locals? No, but it really pisses them off fast and is a great way to start combat!

Will killing those geckos prevent their killing of the nearby brahmin or just make room for a even nastier alpha-predator? Killing the cows however has somehow pushed a local scientist/nut into discovering how to milk geckos. (Geckos have milk?!? No. Can't possibly. Then what am I drinking? *gulp*)

Also I would like to state that yes, a great many things are done right. However, this is sort of a wish list so that these games eclipse the prior titles.

If you want the ESRB/PEGI and overprotective parents to shut down the Fallout Franchise forever, then by all means add sadistic raiders, that [censored] and torture, add graphic cannabilism animations, add sadistic finishing moves.

I think a bit more savagery as you call it couldn't hurt, but some things cross a line that organisation and people will brutalise the Fallout Franchise for.

I

''After I kill you, I will [censored] your corpse. Don't worry. I'll be gentle.''

That was in Morrowind. It was threatening and lulzy, which is perfect for Fallout. Needs more sick **** themes like that, what we have now is relatively tame, though FNV had the ghoul cowboy dominatrix.

New Vegas also has about every swear word in the book said dozens of times over through out the game.

This. And having better deaths instead of falling over would be a lot more entertaining.

I think the problem with this one is the fact that the areas cannon are supposed to be bigger and have higher population something the engine couldn't handle.

But yeah a more livelier ecosystem sounds interesting.

I don't know if scary in the "horror" sense would be good for Fallout but more of a constant fear of death feel would be great. When you have to watch your ammo and other supplies constantly it makes it that
much more exciting when you find even some basic items.