I don't say Oblivion's dungeons were very good, I say that Skyrim's ones are worse, which is quite a big difference.


Let's see...

"Oblivion's dungeons were more than just one single corridor, and though Skyrim's dungeons have meticulously detailed walls, they are still just a tunnel that goes forward without anything to think about, to explore or to use tactically. As nice-looking as they are, they are still the absolute ZERO when it comes to design."

"Sure, they added some nice "personnal touch", but the dungeons are still all "press forward along the railroad, don't bother to think or act except to fight". I don't want to watch a cinematic as I follow a single path with absolutely no thought involved, I want to, well, PLAY and as such to have POSSIBILITIES."

The last one is IN THE VERY QUOTE IN YOUR OWN POST. Have you some reading comprehension problem, or do you just write your answer without even looking at what you answer to ?


Reality showing that Oblivion's dungeons, as bad as they were, were not a single corridor (not to say they were the octopus-mania from Daggerfall, but at least they had a bit to explore and not all the exact same design of "one path"), sadly contradicts you. And I'm afraid you can't argue against facts.

Oblivion's dungeons were technically just a single path as well. They weren't any more varied, save for having more cut up cells while Skyrim's are mostly larger.

And once again you have failed to provide any examples of dungeons you think were uniquely varied in Oblivion, while I have with Skyrim. Here, let me help you with that; Fyrelight Cave and Sideways Cave weren't as generic as the rest. But Blackreach (A gigantic underground Dwemer ruin home to the capital city of the Falmer and a Mushroom forest) Shadowgreen Cavern and Geirmund's Hall surpass them all.

EDIT: Akka, I request that we continue the discussion here

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1296765-werent-the-dungeons-supposed-to-be-vastly-improved/

Okay.

Waste of time debating with someone who redefines reality to suits him.

Opinions. I loved it.

The connectivity of dungeons can be viewed in many ways. Someone will see anything as "single-path" if there's a defined objective (e.g. the boss you need to kill) at a static location, because then the shortest path is the only one, and all others are blind alleys or side-paths that "don't count". Others will see the same dungeon as "multi-path" if you can take a different turn and still get there without back-tracking. They're both right by their own definitions.

There's a huge difference in degree between the tangled maze that was every dungeon in Daggerfall, and the simpler ones in the later games, but mathematically speaking, the later ones were higher-order, having more than one entrance/exit. The presence of switches that alter the topologies (open doors, move bridges etc.) increases the order in each case, but I don't see any real change in how often that comes up.

I cannot remember if I posted here so I'll post now.

I love Oblivion. But then again, I love every Bethesda game.

For those who haven't seen it, this sight is even more impressive in person (so to speak). I vividly remember entering that room and stopping dead in my tracks, gawking at that spectacle. The effect all of that blue stuff swirling around the room, the sound effects, the sheer size of the place...I was awed.






Have you been to The Rift yet, Renee Gade number three? The region surrounding Riften is fast becoming my favorite region in any of the Elder Scrolls games. I just love all those Birch trees and autumnal colors (autumn is my favorite season). It's so different from the snowy mountainous regions up north. I find it so calming, so peaceful (except when I'm attacked by a Bear, of course). I never want to leave, once I've gotten there. My next character is going to be one who heads straight for Riften and stays in that region, if I can manage it.





Despite what I said earlier, I thought Oblivion had a few dungeons that were actually very nice. In particular, I thought Sideways Cave and Vilverin were very well done. And I know I've seen a few others that I can't think of the names of (Ayleid place names sound alike to me). They aren't dungeons, per se, but I thought Oblivion Realms were well done too...there just weren't enough of them.





For my money, I thought, for the most part, that Dunmer Strongholds, Velothi Towers and Ancestral Tombs were some of the least interesting dungeon types in the last three Elder Scrolls games. I was also underwhelmed by most Daedric Ruins, to be honest. And while I thought the art design of Dwemer Ruins was fantastic I thought the floor plans of too many were uninspiring. Ironically, it was caves that were the most consistently fun for me. I don't know, maybe I'm a spelunker at heart. I don't remember the Corprusarium well so I'm not really qualified to comment on that.

I personally found Fallout 3's subways more interesting then Oblivion's dungeons. This is not an insult either game I genuinely loved dungeon crawling in Fallout 3's subways, but Oblivion's dungeons were never as scary even without Detect Life.

I actually liked the Dunmer Strongholds and Velothi Towers quite a bit. The towers seemed like old outposts and underground mansions and the strongholds seemed much more defensible than the forts throughout Cyrodiil. They were both fairly cookie cutter, I admit, but that they were laid out realistically appeals to me.

skyrim is what oblivion should have been, minus the lack of attributes and level scaling. that said, oblivion was and still is a lot of fun. it's just the weak link of the three.

For me it was the leveling system. It was so absolutely horrible that it was a deal breaker for me trying to enjoy the game. It wasn't the only factor but it was the most omnipresent one.

I love Oblivion!

I love Oblivion. I can understand those who prefer Morrowind, and in some respects I find Morrowind to be the better game of the two. Yet I still prefer Oblivion by far, and I've spent hundreds of hours in the game. Skyrim seems to be a good contestor, though.

Oblivion was where I started, and I love it to death, despite it being IMHO the weakest game in the series. I don't really get bored of the dungeons, but then again, I often put wide spaces in between my dungeon crawls so that it doesn't get boring. I don't need to do that in Skyrim, and that game is actually encouraging me to explore the dungeons because of how much work and craft went into them.

You can keep your "non-linear" dungeons that still only had one actual route flanked by a few short dead-end passageways, if Skyrim's dungeons are anything to go by, TES VI has a lot to live up to. Oblivion had a few unique dungeons (Sideways Cave, Fyrelight Cave, Vilverin), but none of Skyrim's dungeons except the ten-minute Radiant Story dungeons are generic in any way.

I'm sold. And I still have yet to visit Blackreach. :turned:

Anyways, enough on dungeons.

Do I hate Oblivion? No. Do I try to dress up its shortcomings? Also no. I am not the kind of person who blindly defends bad design because they are simply a fan of the game, I am a fan of the game despite those flaws existing, because where the game falls short in one place gets made up for in another. Gameplay-wise, Oblivion fell short with the poorly thought out level scaling, grind-encouraging player level-ups, boring combat, and lack of decent storytelling. But as a world to lose yourself in, there is nothing better.

Well said, my fellow cyrodilian. Have a :celebration:

Hate? No.
I enjoyed playing it for a while but when I go back to it the emjoyable parts are too far apart and the character levelling, levelled creatuires and levelled loot make too much of it seem like a chore rather than fun.
I still got over 300 hours on just 1 character and played many, so I won't complain about it not being value for money, but thats nothing compared to how much I've played MW.