is sithis the most powerful being in elder scrolls? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:59 pm

Half the members in the sanctuary were off their gourd, relatively speaking

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:53 pm

but this is assuming sithis/padomay anuiel, are like non existant non visible forces. what would happen if sithis/padomay etc. actually started communicating with somebody just like the daedra? wouldn't that make this all invalid? i mean the big bang can't talk to you, the universe can't talk to you, gravity can't talk to you so if sithis/padomay, anuiel, started communicating to you wouldn't that make them something more? maybe they won't but even though they are crazy the db mems claim he talks to them before a kill, daedra princes acknowledge him as if they spoke to him, and there are even shrines

I may be off my rocker, here, but isn't Mephala really the one that talks to them? Or, am I mixing up my lore?

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:22 pm

I may be off my rocker, here, but isn't Mephala really the one that talks to them? Or, am I mixing up my lore?

Its debatable, but that is one of the theories thats is floating around.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:45 am

Anu and Padomay are just forces, really. And Sithis is sometimes referred to as synonymous with Padomay, or sometimes Sithis is the original unified state of the universe or sometimes he is paired with Anuiel, lower down in the hierarchy from Anu/Padomay (Never could figure what the point of that was). But none of these things are powerful beings. Anu and Padomay were the two halves of the universe containing everything else within themselves. Yes, they were first, but they are also gone. They split into a million pieces to become existence as we know it.

It's like saying yes, the Big Bang is more powerful than any of our nuclear bombs, but so what?

Oblivion's Dark Brotherhood talk about a Dunmeri (IIRC) philosophical-religious concept, and try to mash it together with a (valid) conception of Lorkhan as a chaotic spirit who brought death to the universe. The two don't mesh, and the Dark Brotherhood are being partly novel and heretical, and partly just ignorant. Factor in the possibility of a Daedric Prince screwing with them for fun (is there a source for this idea) and you have a fine explanation of one dev's emo outreach program.

So what if the psycho-n-sociopaths of the Dark Brohood believe in heretical gumpth, that twists things we assume are the basics of Mundus? Why does this make Emil P. a terrible writer? Do you believe Untruths are not a valid part of TES Lore?
"When presented with alternate, conflicting theories, ask yourself what you're being told, and what motivation the speaker or writer has in telling you what he or she does."

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:54 pm

So what if the psycho-n-sociopaths of the Dark Brohood believe in heretical gumpth, that twists things we assume are the basics of Mundus?

So what indeed. But as we all know, Oblivion failed hard at expressing doubt, mystery and controversy. Ask the thousands upon thousands of fans who believed what MQ and DB NPCs presented to them without question. It wasn't their fault; it was the game's fault, because what should have been an alternate viewpoint was carried out as a clumsy de-facto retcon.

Why does this make Emil P. a terrible writer?

I only judge the Dark Brotherhood and Fallout 3's MQ. Todd says he does a lot of other stuff besides.

"When presented with alternate, conflicting theories, ask yourself what you're being told, and what motivation the speaker or writer has in telling you what he or she does."

Because the only thing teenaged boys like more than assassins is gothic pseudo-satanist assassins that say mysterious dark things. And I have no use at all for the beliefs of the Dark Brotherhood, which are not an intriguing heresy but merely an Evil (capital E) pastiche of the Christian trinity, a religion that does not exist in Tamriel. And Sithis had to be corrected in the DLC, showing the statue with the missing heart.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:39 am

What is this about Vivec having Chim ? This is the first I've heard of it and if he had Chim why did he not use it to uberwtfroflstomp Dagoth Ur ? Did Dagoth Ur also have Chim and if so why did he not use it to stop the reincarnated Nerevar ? This leads me to wonder about Sotha Sil and Almelexia, did they not have Chim ?

I'm confused.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:52 pm

What is this about Vivec having Chim ? This is the first I've heard of it and if he had Chim why did he not use it to uberwtfroflstomp Dagoth Ur ? Did Dagoth Ur also have Chim and if so why did he not use it to stop the reincarnated Nerevar ? This leads me to wonder about Sotha Sil and Almelexia, did they not have Chim ?

I'm confused.

As far as I'm aware, Vehk definitely achieved CHIM; the controversy is when he did. I personally like the theory that he achieved it when MK roleplayed him during the Trial of Vivec, but there's different thoughts.

I'm not aware of any reason to think that Almalexia, Dagoth Ur, or Sotha Sil achieved CHIM, but I may be missing something.

Why do you think Vehk would want to to use CHIM to destroy Dagoth Ur? It's not all about the end-- sometimes the means, and the players that perform them, matter even more.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:16 am

ok now that really doesn't make any sense haha, vivec? there are like 16 daedric princes infront of him, he is not nearly as powerful as any daedric prince. and aniuel is near bottom, but is 1 of the creators of universe lol

You don't think vivic is as strong as any of the Princes?

In Morrowind Dagon's health and magic is at 1000. Vivic is at 3000 health and 1000 magic. You could just write it off as game mechanics but I thought it was worth mentioning.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:27 am

What is this about Vivec having Chim ? This is the first I've heard of it and if he had Chim why did he not use it to uberwtfroflstomp Dagoth Ur ?

Because he knew the game was set up for you to do it. He played his part in helping you, it was not his role to defeat Dagoth Ur.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:26 am

Because the only thing teenaged boys like more than assassins is gothic pseudo-satanist assassins that say mysterious dark things.

You're forgetting about boobs.

What is this about Vivec having Chim ? This is the first I've heard of it and if he had Chim why did he not use it to uberwtfroflstomp Dagoth Ur ? Did Dagoth Ur also have Chim and if so why did he not use it to stop the reincarnated Nerevar ? This leads me to wonder about Sotha Sil and Almelexia, did they not have Chim ?

I'm confused.

There's like... three Vehks. First, you have (had) the mortal!Vehk, who betrayed Nerevar and whatnot. Then you have (had) the god!Vehk, who is powered by the Heart. Finally, you have everything!Vehk, who is CHIM is everything is Vehk. The first Vehk went by that initial (I forget what his full name was. I like to imagine it was Valentine), the second Vehk went by the name Vehk Vehk, or Vivec. Sometimes, I like to imagine that the third guy, the one with CHIM, is called Vivivec.

Vivivec, having CHIM, is everything. He's every orgism, every high, every adrenaline rush, and every victory. He's Dagoth Ur and the Neravrine, and Azura. He's everything and everyone, and that probably makes it really hard to care about anything in particular. Sure, Vivivec could have killed Dagoth Ur, but why? "Oh, nooooo! I'm losing my god powers! What ever will I do, left with only my CHIM powers?" Vivivec doesn't even care if Vivec dies (you can talk to him about in in MW). This is also why he gave the Numidium away. The only thing that could bring him to act was the death of his BFFs Sotha Sil and Almalexia.

» Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:47 pm

Nah it would have to be Lorkhan hes basically the tes version of god.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:24 am

The real most powerful being in ES is the G-Man, he has the ability to traverse the boundaries of the universe into other universes.

The G-Man, and/or members of his species, exist in every game series from Elder Scrolls to Half-Life to Mass effect to Dragon Age.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:49 am

The real most powerful being in ES is the G-Man, he has the ability to traverse the boundaries of the universe into other universes.

The G-Man, and/or members of his species, exist in every game series from Elder Scrolls to Half-Life to Mass effect to Dragon Age.

No. Just no.

Normally I'd be fine with this sort of stuff but from what's been demonstrated so far the OP may just think you're being serious.