I wanted to make a horse stable addition to another modders house (for myself...doubtful release).

I selected the ESM, the existing mod esp, and DID NOT select an active file.

I made my changes and was prompted to make a save when I exited.

I named my mod and exited the program.

At first it did not show up in my Data folder. I researched and discovered that because of Vista I needed to copy it from the "compatible files" to the data folder. I did this.

I activated it in OBMM, and launched the game.

SUCCESS.......my changes exist.....but they need refinement.

<<< PROBLEMS BEGIN HERE >>>

I loaded CS and selected the ESM, existing mod esp, and my new mod esp. I DID select my esp as the active file.

I made a few changes and clicked "Save". Nothing happens.

I tried to exit. I am prompted to save. I do. Nothing happens.

After 3 tries.....it saves and exits.

I go back to "compatible files" and see that the new mod esp was updated with a new time-stamp.

However, after copying and pasting to the Data folder, NO additional changes (2nd round) appear in game.

Opening the CS again, loading as before......no 2nd round changes appear.


I have tried this three times. I can create, save, load, and play an ESP. But I cannot edit that esp a second time.


Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

You selected the .esm, another .esp and your own .esp as active file. Didn't you get lots of warnings when you opened the TESCS for the second time ?
You mean the house mod is delivered as an .esm AND an .esp, this is most uncommon. What does the .esm contain, exactly ?


if you don't intend to release the modified mod you could merge the 2 .esp and work directly on the merged version (as new .esp).

It is not always Vista's fault...Duplicate or missing refs are normal in this siuation, and your changes are not validated because they are made on invalid refs. Each .esp is independant and the refs created in one can't be used directly in another.
It is possible to use an .esp as a master but the results are not always the ones expected... Here you can find some help : http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/De-Isolation_Tutorial

The ESM is the main Oblivion file. The original ESP is the other modder's house. The only other file is my addition saved as an ESP on exit the first time.

I followed the link, haven't read it all the way through, but it said....

"Mods based on Oblivion.esm don't have this problem because it's a master file (ESM). Multiple add-on plugins (ESPs) can alter it at the same time without any problems. Unfortunately, TESCS doesn't let you use plugins as masters, even though the game engine actually doesn't mind at all."

I don't understand this. I see mods released all the time that improve on existing mods. How is that achieved unless they can view the data for that esp in the CS as a starting point. I would think that as long as the real master file is loaded and you are saving a different esp the CS wouldn't care what else (additional) you are viewing because you aren't changing it.

In my case, I just wanted to make sure that my stable was close enough, but not too close, to the house. So, I needed the Oblivion master file to edit, and the other esp for reference. If the CS won't allow this that seems like a real disadvantage for modders.

I'm not done reading that link, but if anyone knows a quick solution please post it. Thanks.

In order to do that you need to use Deisolation -- Using Wyre Bash - select the first mod.esp and then select ESMify self ( this changes a couple bits in the file making the game think it is an .esm instead of an .esp and will then allow you to make changes to it and save them to a separate .esp file - when finished reverse the change by selecting the first mod.esp again and selecting espify self to turn it back into an .esp file --- then make sure your new esp is loading after the first esp otherwise your game will crash since the second esp is changing things that do not exist yet if the first mod is not already loaded. (Which is why BETH designed it to not allow this type of thing as the game can become unstable if people that do not know what they are doing start doing this randomly !!

The easiest way is to edit directly the first mod and change the position of the stable here. You don't need to recreate an .esp for this. Before using the modified .esp Just uncheck it in the loader make a clean save in another place, quit the game and and re-enable it next time you launch the game. Preferably, rename the .esp. The game doesn't like .esp modified "on the fly" and could misplace the doors.
As long as it is for your own use I don't see where is the problem.

Thanks. I think both/either solutions will work for me. I was going to wait until it was finished to decide if it was worth releasing, but this makes the decision simple. I never actually changed anything in the first ESP. I figured the system would be smart enough to tell if something that "didn't exist yet" had been edited. I guess it isn't. I just assumes If you made an esp with another esp loaded they will conflict. Hmmm.

Or easier still would be to grab the http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=36370. It will let you use other esp's as master files without having to go through all the deisolation hoops using WryeBash. The easiest way to make patches between mods too. Requires obse obviously.

If I released something would it inherently require OBSE for the user as well?