I'd report the MMM thing in Martigen's thread.

He may yet come back and handle all current bug reports. I've seen him go for months then return and clean up.

I'll do that. It certainly can't hurt.

Redownloading the DLC did fix the "no land" problem. Well, another lesson learned.

Now heading into Operation Anchorage at level 9. I feel a little bad that I'm happy when the Outcasts die so I can steal their sweet power armor enhancements (provided by Powered Power Armor), but, well, that's life in the Wasteland. :fallout:

So, it seems I found a plugin that kills FO3Edit when you try and run the Undelete and Disable function on it and then subsequently try and save the mod (the process finishes up, but the mod never saves and FO3E always crashes afterwords): Its called LessRocks.esp, though I can't seem to remember where I grabbed it from (searching that on Nexus pulls nothing for me). Just thought it was kind of strange.

The same thing happened to me on the original mod that inspired this thread ("Taking out the Trash"). Probably because the entire plugin consists of deleting things (it was something like 1500 records, of which 1400 were deletions).

Sounds about right, Less Rocks was about the same results records wise. I'm still running with it, but I have looked some things with it over pretty close in FO3Edit manually and it doesn't appear to have major conflicts with my LO, so I am just ignoring that it is filled with "dirty" edits.

Psymon - just to be sure - I did not remove identicals or do undeletes of the DLCs. I leave them alone along with the big overhauls like FWE, MMM, EVE, WMK and BoE....

PS - I didnt know the Mantis mod caused so many problems - was that before or after you cleaned it?

I clean the DLC in both Oblivion and F3.

I find the only two Puce Moose mods that don't give me grief are the first two. Yes both before and after cleaning.

With Mantis in particular it would throw off map markers then textures stopped matching meshes correctly (see signs on workbenches) then menus didn't work. Starting soon after game load.

With the PL one I had near constant ctds.

Maybe you will have better luck?

Hmm...what exactly do you mean by "clean"? I went through cleaning on the DLC (delete identical to master and undelete and disable) and it removed the floor of any cell in the Fallout Worldspace affected by the DLC, making them impossible.

Can you tell me what cells and what DLC - I want to test that.


Preferably with Broken Steel or something that is in an accessible cell location.

=====================

OK just checked again and I guess my memory is faulty - I guess I did not have them cleaned (wow I certainly would have tried - maybe I annealed them with BAIN). I went to the start of Anchrage and yeah the ground was missing.

Anyone else getting this?

To be certain of this - one would need to test with just the DLC active. It could be due to a mod dependent on the DLC.

====================

Gah - Since I'm in the process of moving right now I will have little time to test this thoroughly. But ideas for any who want to. At best I can run the bashed patch between other tasks and play though a few areas that my character can got to easily.

First there is no reason I can think of for this to be the case. The DLC are mods not alterations of the engine. They are not patches. They were made on the Geck/CS like other mods are. Cleaning DLC in Oblivion was never an issue and actually recommended ... and I'm certain at one point I did clean them.

Thinking onward - cleaning the DLC of duplicate records inherent in the Fallout.esm would have no reason to affect spaces/cells that are not alterations of the Vanilla world space. Such as the Anchorage starting area or deck of mothership Zeta.

Ok a few things to test:
Does this happen only when fast traveling to the area or by going there on foot too? I went to the anchorage start by fast travel and not floor.
Does this happen when no other mods are loaded? Like maybe a weather mod or the UFP.
Does this happen with a new game or with a character who had not yet been the locations involved?

===================

I'll just edit here till anyone else has info ...

So removed UFP, Weather patch for Anchorage and was able to fast travel to near the red racer area (entrance to DLC) and yep http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/psymon11b/ScreenShot17.jpg. I ~tcl to get to the door then the tunnel with the ghouls was fine but http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/psymon11b/ScreenShot18.jpg.

Next I may try and narrow down if it is the removing identical records or disabling deletions that does this.

===================

OK that was fairly simple - disabling the deletions had no effect. So then the issue is with removing identical records. interesting. Still don't know why, but that is odd.

Chakka-
If you could confirm that on your end - does just setting the deletions to disabled cause any issues ... and is it that removing identical records causes it.
thanks

Arthmoor had the idea that running masterupdate on only the esms might reset ONAM records in them and resolve missing ground.

Didn't work.

Well I decided to start a new game and also added a few more mods. I lost track of what I cleaned and not so I ended up uninstalling all my mods and now just reinstalled them all (really doesnt take long). I am going through tagging to get what I want. Now I plan to experiment with cleaning a mod and then renaming the original like broken steel cleaned and broken steel original, only load both and see what was changed myself. Tedious but I need to see what is really going on. Finally I will create my own patches through fo3edit to get final load order for a complete playthrough.

Oh by the way - I cannot remember the last time I have had a CTD jsut using wrye flash and fo3edit to fix most all things without masterupdating - and I havent seen a landscape issue yet either except once when loading mods quite a while ago and using saved games with a new load order. Saved game again, then reloaded game and landscape issues were gone.

How about load it up in FO3edit, toggle the master bit off, close, save, reload then toggle it back on and save? Fixed somebody's mod this way once, where the onam records just were not there.

Now that's just odd. Why would Powered Power Armor be causing crashes near Agatha's house even if I'm not wearing powered armor and there are no other power-armored enemies nearby other than the Enclave camp that I was able to kill just fine without crashing?

Edit: As near as I can tell, I cannot approach to within a cell of her house without causing crashes. Her actual house, if I coc inside, is fine, as is the immediate exterior. It's not a timed crash bug in my latest saved game, because I can wait in the same spot for as long as I want, but if I approach Agatha's house again, boom, crash.

Edit edit: If I reload about 20-30 minutes prior to my final save and head straight to her house, I can get in, talk to her, and out just fine, but I still get a COD if I try to go to the cells east of her.

Most likely a corrupt spawn point.

Try doing a cell respawn and I bet you get in every time.

RickerHK-

I took http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1122569-relzbetawipz-fnvedit/page__view__findpost__p__17326569 to the man himself.

Cell respawn did not fix the problem, sadly. Still works fine if I disable Powered Power Armor, which makes no sense to me since it doesn't touch any cell near Agatha's House and has no spawn points.

Edit: Going to try clean-saving out PPA, putting it back and consoling in my stuff, and heading out there.

Edit Edit: Nope, a clean save and re-enabling it doesn't fix it either.　There was a patrol of　Brotherhood Outcasts a couple cells east of Agatha's house. I wonder if it's PPA's distribution of power armor upgrades into their inventory that's causing the crashes. Seems odd they'd still be there after cell reset if that were the case, though.

For what it is worth with PPA I can travel to Agatha's place by foot or by fast travel without issue.

best of luck in finding this one.

Found it.

It's not specifically a problem with PPA. It's some kind of conflict between PPA and MMM. Those two (and their dependencies) are the minimum set of mods where the problem still occurs.

I'll poke around in FO3Edit a bit, and if I can't find anything obvious, I'll try cleansaving out MMM, wait for respawn, put it back, wait for respawn, and then heading back and see if the problem persists.

Huh. Doing a full MMM spawn reset (disable, wait out respawn, re-enable, wait out respawn) doesn't fix the problem. Looks like some kind of fundamental conflict, though I'm at a loss to figure out what it is.

Edit: Further clarifications:

1) As far as I know, I'm using the latest version of both mods. PPA version 1.4 gold hotfix and the MMM 6.2 update posted in the MMM thread.

2) The problem appears to be a group of Outcasts fighting a group of raiders around 2-3 cells east of Agatha's house (so, Block 0,0, Sub-block 0,1, (3, 8) or (4,8), I think). With just PPA, there's no problem. With just MMM, there's no problem and there are more of each (6-7 Outcasts and raiders instead of the 3 without MMM). With both, it crashes every time.

I'm guessing it's something to do with PPA adding stuff to the extra Outcasts spawned there through the InventoryAccess mod, though it's really odd since I've never had a crash fighting any of the raider faction Outcasts that MMM adds and PPA overhauls the power armor of.

Edit edit: Since it's a new, consistent problem unrelated to the previous one or the DLC-cleaning discussion, I'll make a new thread.