So if you've played into the mainquest of Skyrim, to about the end, you'll know SPOILERS OMG LOOK AWAY AAAH that Sovngarde is actually a place OMG END SPOILERS

But my question is, does Sovngarde actually work the way the Nords perceive it? Do the heros of old and new heros who have proven themselves in battle actually all go to the same realm after death?

Or is this just an illusion that the Dreamsleeve plays on the minds of each individual? Do people actually inhabit their own illusion Sovngarde by themselves, or does Sovngarde actually transend the Dreamsleeve
which breaks these Nords from the cycle of death and rebirth? Is the Ysgramor that you meet during your quick visit to Sovngarde actually Ysgramor, or is he just your illusion on the assumption that he inhabits Sovngarde?

So to summarize: is the camaraderie of Sonvgarde real, with the actual souls of people from ancient times to now, all in the same place? Or is it just the individual in the Dreamsleeve, imagining Sovngarde?

If Daedra worshippers go to the realms of their Princes after death, I don't see why Sovngarde can't be a viable afterlife, too.

This! I am so relieved that there is an alternate path other than that bleak and horrible idea of the Dreamsleeve. Who the hell wants to die and be recycled into something diifferent that you won't even remember who you where? Sovngarde has endless mead halls and is just plain beautiful! [censored] the Dreamsleeve and give me a proper afterlife.

But even if it's all fantasy and fiction in the Elder Scrolls universe, I am sure most would love to go to Sovngarde. Most nords do.

"You know what is wrong with Skyrim these days? Everyone is obsessed with death."-Nord in Skyrim.

Most of them all dream of going to Sovngarde. Especially Kodlak from the companions.

Personally, I find a "proper afterlife" conceptually boring because it is such a western (and, oftentimes, modern) concept. For most of us, it is our default mode of thought, and I like my fantasy to challenge and expand on the norm.

It's not like your soul is actually going to realize it's being recycled - you'll have a nice dream of an afterlife, and then get to live again. If everyone lives forever in happy magic reward land, where do all the new souls needed to birth new people come from? Changing the function of the afterlife changes the structure of the universe.

I personally like the Dreamsleeve idea.
You may lose your memories but you'll never lose the essence that is you.
You'll essentially never "die", granted you soul stays intact.

But memories is stripped away and you forget who you were.


I like it because it is indeed western and less....gloomy, in a way. I am not going to get into religion. But you get my point. I also like to expand the norm as well, but I always liked to concept of living in a Daedric realm after death. Lifetime of things in a fantasy world, then die and go to a fantasy realm. But even if your soul doesn't realize it's being recycled, it's svcks to know that it is gone after a period of time. That person is no longer there...but a new individual who might be less epic in life than that person was. But to each his own. At least there are multiple path's for afterlives.

But are memories the defining thing of what make us what we are?
I think your soul picks up on your experiences and grows accordingly, you just can't remember.
I don't find it gloomy at all, if anything it's refreshing, you're giving life back to the world when you're recycled.
You're also not a new individual, you're you, but you don't know you're you from before, if that makes sense.
But like you said, to each his own.

Random thoughts: The Dreamsleeve is more than just the recycle bin for souls. We know that non mortal entities can use it as a hiding place for their spirits (Battlespire), and I recall that it has also some sort of communication aspect (by being something that's a connection between individual souls, but I may remember wrong here).

Then there's another issue (sidequest spoilers ahead):
Which may indicate that certain mortal entities can resist being recycled. Or are, for whatever reasons, not recycled.

Which could explain the presence of some ancient spirits in Sovngarde, even if it is part of the Dreamsleeve. Sovngarde as a different place seems... odd. It would mean that all mortal beings bound to Nirn with the sole exception of Nords go to the Dreamsleeve, which doesn't make sense to me. Remember that souls / spirits in Nirn are not seperate entities, they're part of a larger whole. Realizing this is what CHIM / Zero-sum is about. The connection to the greater whole for mortals is the Dreamsleeve. If Nords are not bound to the Dreamsleeve, then what would they be?

The concept of the Nords having a special place in the current Godhead, particularly ones that let their "souls burn anyway" who "are beloved of the Dragon and his Kin" (throw themselves into the fray and die in battle) is not surprising to me. Lorkhan practising favoritism (in his realm, no less). Not terribly shocking.

The Dreamsleeve is not there to punish mortals, but give them a new chance at trancendence. Sovngarde as seperate entity would deny Nords this chance. That istn't favoritism, that's punishment. Well, at least if you agree with man's and Vivec's view about the purpose of Nirn. Now if the Thalmor are right, then it may be a favoritism. I wouldn't go so far. Sovngarde seems very dreamsleeveish to me.

It is a bit like Vehk teaching the Dunmer vs. Vehk teaching the Hortator. Would you rather never be told anything, but be expected to learn everything simply by being in the presence/dying in the middle of a Divine's CHIM project, or would you prefer to be taught by said divinity in-person (and in this case, very hands-on)? I lean toward the latter. At the least, I don't think it ends up necessarily being the hinderance that has been implied. More like, "you get self-sacrifice, you're on your way to 'passing'... here's a big, bright gold star."

Isn't it just simple that Sovngarde is an actual afterlife?

I don't think all nords end up in "real" Sovngarde. If you look around, everyone there is labeled "Nord Hero" or something similar. I'd guess that Sovngarde, if it is a separate realm, serves a purpose similar to Valhalla: it's a barracks for a god's personal army of once-mortal warriors. Shor's not going to accept a nord farmer or a nord accountant into his hall.

In order to enter, you do have to beat Tsun. Can't overcome the trial, you're not worthy. And one likely needs to die a glorious death in combat.

Don't know how I missed this thread. I'll just paste what I asked here then

So I just fnished the mainquest for Skyrim and I'm a little confused. I thought all souls went back to the Dreamsleeve to be reborn. I've heard that the process of rebirth takes time and that souls experience the dreamsleeve differently, which explains Nords seeing it as Sovngarde, but there are souls that have been the for thousands of years.... How is it that they haven't been reborn yet?

And when you look up and see that light in the sky what is it? I'm guessing Aetherius. Is that right?

Sovngarde is a completely different place. Dreamsleeve is not even involved. Not all souls go to the Dreamsleeve. Like some go to Daedric Realms upon death, nords go to Sovngarde.

You can't say that for certain. All we know right now is that a place called Sovngard indeed exists, and that it contains the souls of heroes that have been dead for a long time.

isn't lorkhan the god of the underworld? or is that just elvish nonsense? Perhaps shor rules that particular afterlife, hoarding all the souls of heroes for some conflict at the end of time

Also wouldn't population growth totally ruin any dream sleeve soul magic? I mean if they started with 10000000 souls, what happens when 10000001 people are alive at once?

Exactly what I was thinking, was just about to ask about it when I saw it. :biggrin:

It could also be that Sovngarde is the endgame for Nords rather than separate from the Dreamsleeve. Live, die, and be recyled until one of your incarnations proves himself worthy in battle.

I am under the impression that the Oversoul is infinitely fractal (ala Amaranth) unless if something is standing in the way (ala pre-creation Aedra). We started with two 'souls' and got to this point. What is stop a few more from spliting off?

That's not at all the reason ghosts become insane. It's because existing within the Mundus is literally painful for the dead. Ghosts don't exist without their souls. Potema never left Nirn.