Are Talos and Arkay Aedra? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:13 am

If you base the definition of Aedra on http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Aedra_and_Daedra it would seem that Talos and Arkay are not Aedra.
Both of them used to be mortal (Talos at least, I think Arkay too).
Neither of them were around during the creation of the mortal world.

If they are not Aedra, what are they? If they are, then what is the definition of Aedra?

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:51 am

If you base the definition of Aedra on http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Aedra_and_Daedra it would seem that Talos and Arkay are not Aedra.
Both of them used to be mortal (Talos at least, I think Arkay too).
Neither of them were around during the creation of the mortal world.

If they are not Aedra, what are they? If they are, then what is the definition of Aedra?

I'd say yes (in the broadest sense)
Aedra means "Our Ansestors"
and Daedra means "Not our Anscestors" in ancient elven.
Both Talos and Arkay (depending on source) decended from mortals, and therefore are our ansestors

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:25 am

Well isn't the whole point that Talos was basically turned into an aedra by the aedra?

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:14 pm

They're gods, and in the case of Talos not an aedra with Arkay being a bit more uncertain. You don't have to be an aedra to be a god, see: the Tribunal.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:34 am

They're gods, and in the case of Talos not an aedra with Arkay being a bit more uncertain. You don't have to be an aedra to be a god, see: the Tribunal.

What makes Talos not an Aedra, but Arkay maybe?

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:15 am

What makes Talos not an Aedra, but Arkay maybe?

I've read some conflicting information on Arkay.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:52 am

Alright, lets get one thing straight, do you mean aedra in the merrish definition, or the much more better organized version?

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:43 pm

He's a divine.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:08 am

Arkay's an actual planet though. The whole human shopkeeper thing's a myh.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:29 am

Or a folk tale, rather, because a myth would be true.

So yes, Arkay is an odrinary Aedroth, whereas Talos is an ascended mortal who's standing in for a Daedroth.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:47 am

Or a folk tale, rather, because a myth would be true.

So yes, Arkay is an odrinary Aedroth, whereas Talos is an ascended mortal who's standing in for a Daedroth.

Daedroth as in "Not our ancestor" or "Padomayic aligned spirit"? Because both have huge flaws.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:03 am

Or a folk tale, rather, because a myth would be true.

So yes, Arkay is an odrinary Aedroth, whereas Talos is an ascended mortal who's standing in for a Daedroth.

IIRC, the Arkay-was-once-one-of-us story is limited to Cyrodiil. Orkey, Tu'whacca, and whatever other anologs I'm forgetting were always gods in their respective pantheons.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:40 am

I think it's safe to say that the whole Arkay-was-a-mortal thing came from Daggerfall and was silently retcon'd out when the divines/aedra got fleshed out more. Similar to how Talos got retcon'd in.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:35 am

I think it's safe to say that the whole Arkay-was-a-mortal thing came from Daggerfall and was silently retcon'd out when the divines/aedra got fleshed out more. Similar to how Talos got retcon'd in.

Not been retconned really. It has become allegorical, something of which you can't tell if it wasn't always true. Much more elegant.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:42 pm

I don't count the Tribunal as gods really. Just really powerful mortals granted long life by an external power source, which when removed also rendered them obsolete.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:15 pm

What are gods? When does one stop being a god? When does one become one again? And what if I'm not quite there, only just a hair short of the border? Am I still a god or not?

Here is a head start: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-hatta-sphinxmoth-inquiry-tree

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:54 pm

Arkay was a mortal in a previous kalpa that became mythically important through certain actions during the Dawn Era (or Twilight Era as he would see it). Boom, done.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:09 am

I don't count the Tribunal as gods really. Just really powerful mortals granted long life by an external power source, which when removed also rendered them obsolete.

Well Vivec achieved Chim so yeah he has his own divinity now.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:33 am

It's said Arkay is the son of Akatosh, but think about it: the conscious witness of life and death, mortality, and the cycle created the gods. Arkay is the father of Akatosh.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:02 am

It's said Arkay is the son of Akatosh, but think about it: the conscious witness of life and death, mortality, and the cycle created the gods. Arkay is the father of Akatosh.

That's stupid. Akatosh is time. Without time there is no change.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:11 pm

Akatosh is sequential time.

It's a mortal's reckoning of time.