People are really defensive on this board, but labeling players as console players as a derogatory term isn't helping.

Maybe your opening post should talk about the real problem. The developers dumbed it down. Not the console players, not the PC players. The developers.

Make your threads with your complaints, but try to be clear and conscise. You think it's dumbed down? How, exactly? From your post I have no idea what you think is dumbe down about this game.

Let me give you an example:

I agree this game is dumbed down. It has become less about role playing to me. Yes, we have the options on how we want to kill (warrior, stealth, Mage), but other options are severely limited.

Our characters are not allowed to have any opinions that actually matter. Side with the Stormcloaks, Imperials, or neither. It doesn't matter, the result in the end is the same.

Persuade, bribe, intimidate, or follow the speech tree. It doesn't matter, the result is the same in the end.

Do I want to be an athletic, jumpy Khajit? Doesn't matter, an Orc wearing light armor can jump just as high as me.

That's how you lay out individual complaints and not make sweeping generalizations.

P.S. New Vegas is the best RPG as of late, give it a shot.

Riiiight.

Well, it *has* been too long since we've had a post like this, now hasn't it?

I play on both console and PC.

Does it surprise you that I love getting deep into character customization? Does it surprise you that I love some games based solely on story and dialog? Or am I just another one of "those" console players who is basically a worthless abomination of a human being in your book?

Whenever (let me repeat that) WHENEVER you use the phrase "dumbed down" or any phrase similar to it, when referring to console games and players, you are insulting those games and the players who enjoy them. It doesn't matter if you disclaim that it isn't a "troll post".

yeah consoles svck.. yea woot! pc rules best game system ever... mods n world of warcraft n [censored]

wow trolling is boring..

so yeah... im going to go play some games..n stuff

edit- that's a joke btw..

Yeah, we are hearing you.... that paragraph there pretty clearly states that you think console players are somehow lesser and need to be "brought up".

I watched the first video half way through and this is my impression: *FACEPALM*. I mean I don't use the PC simply because I can't afford one good enough to even play WoW decently, but if I would if I had the cash....

These threads are tired, absurd and downright trolling at this point. If Skyrim is so intolerable to you go find another game to play rather than clog up the forums with whining.

in your opinion is the key word here just because its your opinion doesn't mean that it is fact i havent taken an I.Q test but i know i am not as stupid as the people in that video. now onto your second point porting it from pc to console would likely just shift the problems from the pc community to the console community which makes up the majority of sales for most gaming companies so if the console community is unsatisfied because of problems or lack of content that is present in the pc version and do not buy the game bethesda loses.

I think consoles need to be updated to fix all our problems!

Perhaps I'm not a professional writer and don't know how to properly put into words what is in my head. I'm not criticizing console players. I have consoles. I play games on the consoles. My point is that developers are the ones that don't actually view console gamers in a very high regard. That is why they - and I don't mean this literally - "dumb down" games when taken from PC to the console. You can clearly see this in TES franchise. There are tons of other topics discussing this. That's not what I'm here for. The point is that we as gamers - both PC and console - need to do a better job at letting developers at Bethesda know that they can make a ton of money and not "dumb down" the games. Give us big, complex games with tons of choices. We can handle it, Bethesda.

I do understand your point, particularly this final comment.

There are many old fans of the series who feel it's lost its depth, blame the influx of new gamers from the medium becoming accepted and mainstream, and in doing so alienate these newcomers. This polarizes the issue, makes their original stance "elitist," and undermines what they're trying to do: convince developers to bring back, or develop off of, many old school gameplay staples (or drop new ones they view as crutches). Instead of attacking newcomers, if they welcomed newcomers and showed them what was fun about old school games they'd probably be far more successful.

Honestly the average RPG in the 80s and 90s was far less sophisticated than the average game today. We tend to forget what was average and emphasize those games that reached the pinnacle of genre. Few people were introduced to CRPGs with Planescape: Torment, Daggerfall, Fallout, or Ultima VII. No, they probably started with arcade games, side-scrollers, or Doom - then moved on to action-oriented dungeon slogs like the ones produced by SSI.

It is true that many new gamers play on consoles, but consoles are a scapegoat here for gaming becoming mainstream. But ignoring such semantics, delving into why the phrase "dumbed down for consoles" is platform bashing, even if that is not your intention. And platform bashing, intentional or otherwise, is not acceptable on the forums.