This isn't a contradiction. The Telvanni were a powerful faction in Vvardenfell, and were also a minority voice.

To the OP: Your High Elf doesn't have to be from a High Elf faction or territory at all. There are plenty of High Elves who are members of other factions. Most factions are not race specific in ES lore. Only a few are. Really your High Elf could be from almost any faction in the current ES timeline. Your High elf could be... Imperial Legion' Imperial Mages' Guild student/teacher/associate; Imperial Citizen; Displaced Imperial nobleman/magistrate; Vigilant of Stendarr; Follower of any Divine/Daedra/etc; Pilgrim of any religion; Knight of one of the innumerable knightly orders from any nation in Tamriel; Citizen who grew up (insert anywhere here);Member of any of the great houses of Morrowind; Mercenary; Adventurer; The possibilities are limitless.

This made me laugh and laugh and laugh...because it is true, at least with regards to what the Altmer can identify as "teen".

Although I would make one addition: They're angsty metrosixual teens. Didn't they get their start in a salon? :laugh:



Baratan speaks the truth. History is almost entirely made up of minority voices that gain power. The American Revolution, The French Revolution, The Bolshevik Revolution, The Nazi rise to power... all minority parties doing BIG THINGS.

The American Revolution is the perfect example and one I am ashamed I did not think of first. It only took 3% of the population to change the nation and then the world, forever.

The Thalmor doesn't kill all Bosmer, but they do engage in purges. At least according to Delphine.

It's why the Bosmer helps you in the MQ.

Golly I hope number VI is in Summerset; I do love the Altmer.
This whole thread also makes me pity the Bosmer, though, they always get pushed around, and are the little, middle guy that gets stepped on. And they're not even meant to be pitied, like the Orcs!

The thing I love about the Bosmer and the Orcs is that though they are "the little guy" they're actually the hardest of the harcore. They're sympathetic, but not pathetic.

Bring on the wild hunt! :rock:

Would love it if all the Bosmer in Valenwood just transformed and kicked those Altmers' spotted owls.

You could be like Fasendil, an Altmer Imperial Legate who apparently REALLY doesn't like the Dominion for what they did in Hammerfell during the Night of Green Fire.

That'd be ironic: using Y'ffre's gift to return their bodies back to the way they were in the dawn, just to prevent the world from returning to the pre-dawn.

The orcs had to be hard - there's an awful lot of natural selection going on for the orcs. Sink or swim.

The bosmer, meanwhile, are pretty hardcoe just because of the Green Pact to begin with. They're entirely carnivorous and eat the bodies of those they kill in battle. (Thankfully, I think daedra are exempt from this part of the pact, or else ewww...) Then they can turn themselves into a landshark if things get really dicey.

The bosmer you see, though, the ones away from Valenwood, are all generally the layabouts and hedonists. The people who stay true to their ways would be pretty hardcoe, although I worry that you might get into the Dwarf Fortress-style elf-hate if they actually protested against chopping down trees even when performed by other races. (Which the khajit did in their war with the bosmer to provoke them, IIRC.)

Surely, if you're planning on roleplaying an Altmeri dissident and enemy of the Thalmor, it would be much more appropriate to cast your lot with the Empire to help strengthen it so it can act as the last feasible bulwark against Thalmor expansionism rather than helping a rebellion that will weaken the Empire and doom Tamriel?

Thanks guys. Definitely a lot of info here. :thumbsup:

What do you mean? Dremora are quite crunchy

You can have power and be a minority vote, just look at the Occupy movement and the 1%. >.>

The Occupy Movement doesn't command one of the oldest political institutions in the world nor the economic, military, monetary and prestige value that comes with it. The Thalmor obviously had to have more than just minor backing to Dominate the Aldmeri Dominion in the past. I could see hwo they would take a back seat after Tiber conquered the Dominion, suppression of such ultra-radical ideals would be logical for the safety of all, but to call them always a minor party just doesn't fit to me.

I get the general impression that c. late second era, Thalmor were the uncontested masters of the Dominion.

They formed a ecclesio-political elite class who dominated the upper echelons of of Altmeri society with the silent complacency of the lower rungs, contested only by The Beautiful and presumably other iconoclast-discontents.

But then Numidium stomps up on their shores (even though I like to imagine it floating across the Abecean, eyes brighter-than-magnus, singing the novendecimal tonal paramita - the aurul death-knell of Alinor) does such horrendous damage to the dracochrysalis that the Thalmor are totally broken upon of The Wheel. Tiber doesn't just force a regime change, he causes regime erasure.

Thus during the Third Era, they would naturally be a minority voice. They weren't just booted from power, they were divinely rent from their seat at the precipice of Un- and Making.

I'm also starting to think that this is why the Beautiful don't exist anymore as an underground group. After Numidium, Tiber probably installed them as the local leadership!

There is no contradiction in the term 'powerful minority'. That could describe any well organised and influential group. It does not make them right (or wrong).

As for 'finally overcoming the Numidium', the Rising Threat books make the opposite case: the Altmer were emotionally shattered after the fall of Crystal-Like-Law, and were eager to accept any group that set itself up as an example of strength. This is far more convincing- I can't imagine the fall of Crystal did anything for Altmer pride.

Its the idea that they were always a minority that gets me. Thats obviously a uninformed comment or just propaganda from the author, the Thalmor were certainly very big before Tibers Empire.

I think you are mixing up cause and effect here.
The Thalmor in the 2nd era was a legitimate government and even the pretty anti-elven 1st edition Pocket Guide describes them as such, while the 3rd claims them to have been "a congress of Bosmeri chieftains and Altmeri diplomats".

It seems likely to me that, after the conquest, the members of the (dissolved) government went underground and in contact or even kept their titles as honorific (and inherited) and radicalized over time. The deification of Talos Stormcrown was likely the slap in the face that started this process and probably turned the Thalmor from a nostalgic old gentlemer's club into a schemeing cabal. That would still make them a minority group without any real power, until the descendants of the original Thalmor members grabbed it from the ruling kings and queens.

I don't understand why you and Walrus are so opposed to this. There's no reason to think it's untrue; we have no information that contradicts it and it's precisely what I'd expect.
Saying that it's obviously propaganda or wrong seems to be a baseless assertion directed against an uncontroversial statement.
Could you explain further why you think it can't be true?