The material struck me as rather odd (read: malachite is stupid).

What really bothered me is that my light spellsword Altmer Dragonborn (ha ha) excitedly crafted himself some Glass Armour for the first time, equipped it, and... holy hells he looked like a tank. If that's not heavy armour I don't know what is.

If it's the MW glass: Lorkhan's blood has gotten all over the place, between having his heart shot across Tamriel, and having red mountain explode.

If it's not the MW glass: If there were three varieties of translucent green material that can be used to make deadly weapons and strong light armor, and all of them were only present in specific areas (say, Alinor, Skyrim, and Morrowind), wouldn't you expect the layman's terms for these materials to all be the same? Sure, one is the blood of Lorkhan (who was an Octopus, apparently), one is the result of shouting at sand, and one is actually harvested from a flying coral, but they all look the same, so who cares?

Vvardenfell is her heart, but Nir's skin still bleeds if you scratch her
lol Lorkhuid. Octokhan


I tried to say something like this, sans the Tolkien info. Ended up not being very relevant
Godforbid the altmer figure out bulletproof windowpanes. Accountants are prohibited from basejumping off Crystal-like-Law

ergh mailman jokes

Though I guess this explains what the Nazgul were really riding. Cliffracers.

Generally speaking, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass refers to amorphous (not crystalline) solid materials. Which pretty much disqualifies the very crystalline "glass armor" in Morrowind.

Actually, "Glass" is not used in an improper manner in this case - glass is actually defined as any solid that is not in a crystaline structure. Hence, all solid objects are either "crystal" or "glass". Obsidian, for example, is a type of stone that is volcanic glass. Plastic is another type of glass. In fact, many types of ceramic are glass. Think of this as being "ceramic armor" if that helps you get your head around having a "glass armor".

The reference to obsidian is actually a pretty good idea of how glass might work, as well, as obsidian, thanks to its lack of rigid structure, is capable of holding incredibly sharp edges (down to an atomic level), which would make it an excellent cutting tool if you didn't make the whole blade out of the material, as obsidian is also fairly brittle thanks to its lack of rigid structure. It's also fairly dense, so making it into light armor seems a little odd. (Of course, if we then compare it to ceramics, it would potentially be fairly light and still have the sharp edge, but also be too brittle for repeated use in combat and functionally impossible for the technology base we are talking about to have the capability to smelt this stuff.)

Of course, if you just say it's magic green obsidian made of Lorkhan's blood, then **** science, it can do whatever you want.

The problem is that malachite is a pretty bizarre material to link this to - malachite is an ore of copper, and as others have said, it just seems to have been picked because it's green. What's worse, we don't even get copper! We can have copper jewelry, but no copper to make it with, even though we have silver and gold.

As for glass supposedly only coming from Red Mountain, perhaps glass is mined in its greatest quantities in Red Mountain, but that it could be found from any volcanic vents, since the magma of Red Mountain might be linked into the geothermal activity of all of Nirn, so any volcanic hot spot might have a small quantity of the stuff. It could be found as a type of metamorphic rock, for all we know.

Interesting topic indeed, but I noticed a few things missing from the debate and just had to post. As a student of history and archaeology I do have a little of knowledge of amour, weapons and their forging. Being a woman I know my gems, crystals and minerals (and yes I know that doesn't sound right but when you're talking jewellery and makeup...). So with my knowledge I know that all the armour in the game would be useless junk in the real world, with the exception of the steel plate armour which with an additional two dozen pieces might be of some value. Which is why I'm glad it's fantasy because I love my glass armour, it's effing awesome. All lore aside there have been many interesting ideas and comparisons put forward. I have to say a co-polymer treated with chrome would produce transparent green "glass", which could be used effectively for armour production (i.e. riot shields). In the real world malachite IS classified as an ore, it was smelted to make the earliest known copper armour. I believe they still have a mine operating in Isreal that has harvested and smelted malachite for over 3000 years. Also have to point out that orichalcum is not mythical, we are simply unsure what material it was (the same way we cannot replicate Tyrian purple dye even though we have the ancient recipes). Orichalcum is widely believed to have been composed of gold and copper, which would give it a beautiful lustrous pink gold hue. Obviously neither of these armours looks like the finished product actually would, but perhaps they can be a bit of both worlds with a bit of magic. Could not a mage proficient in smithing and storm magic by use of electroplating fuse crystaline malachite to the copper thus creating a shell? Copper actually does produce this effect all by itself. I definitely see some copper type material running through the armour and it does appear fused. My only qualm about this theory is the apparent Schiller effect, which really reminds me of labradorite (a particularly beautiful crystal). I do believe this is something the Altmer could easily achieve. There does seem to be a lot of potential for lost knowledge throughtout Tamriel with all the epic events it seems absolutely possible that this is not at all the same as Dunmer glass armour but that so much has been lost, forgotten or destroyed, that people simply don't know any better and lump them together because they are similar. Has anyone found ancient glass armour? That could put that to rest quickly. Or maybe the developers are just a bit vapid and screwed it up? I better stop or I'll go on forever. lol Anyway I'd love to hear what anyone else thinks of my little idea, even though the sheen and cleavage are really reminiscent of labradorite... Sorry lol

Except Morrowind's raw glass has well-formed crystalline structures. So yes, calling it glass in Morrowind was inappropriate.

Would you mind pointing me to some source on this?

Or are you simply referring to how it appears in-game?

If it's merely the shape, then there can simply be explanations for why glass would form in a shape that is more commonly associated with "crystal" than with glass. After all, all forms of metal are crystalline, but few actually appear to "look like crystals" in the common understanding of the term.

I fear Malachite is a way of making the stuff more attractive to the current... generation. I remember when Oblivion came out, many people went "omg they make armor out of glass??that's stupid", which is pretty understandable, given that there's no explanation given about its origins. I guess it's easier to make it a mundane material that's simply called "glass" because it kinda looks like glass (well, not really) than having an in-depth lore-y explanation.

I mean, not aiming to insult anyone, but most kids who are new to the series would think that it's "nerdy" instead of badass.

Of course, with all that said, none of the minerals besides iron, silver, and gold ore actually make any sense. (In fact, you don't so much find "iron ore", you find hematite, magnetite, and maybe some limonite, with the occasional iron peat, which is functionally derived from limonite, anyway.)

How do you make steel in this game? You add corundum to iron. What's corundum? It's the proper name for sapphires, emeralds, and rubies.

In real-life, you would want to add a flux material to iron when trying to smelt it into steel because you wouldn't get the fires hot enough without a flux material, which would be something more like limestone or chalk or some other calcium carbonate.

Corundum is made of aluminum oxide, and would make for some pretty poor flux, being as it takes an even higher temperature than iron does to start chemically reacting.

Worse, you could have just said "screw flux, let's just use charcoal", which they actually have in the game, but isn't actually used for anything I can tell. They could have just replaced corundum with coal (or more properly, lignite or bituminous coal some other form of raw coal) and it would have served the exact same game purpose without having to trample all over geology for no good reason.

Quicksilver is not mined, it comes from ores, especially Cinnibar (which is a very bright red color and was used for decorative purposes because of that, including being used as an unfortunately quite toxic red pigment in paint). It's also a highly toxic material that will kill you with the fumes it gives off if you try to wear it, and it would make a pretty poor armor at that.

Moonstone is not an ore of metal at all, it's a feldspar (and a close cousin of the bane of every dwarf, microcline), and as such is part of a class of literally the most common rock on Earth. It's simply a special sub-set that people like because it looks pretty. It's also made of an aluminum oxide, like corundum, which makes it basically impossible to use in chemical reactions without having a furnace capable of going up to something in the ballpark of 1,500 degrees Fahrenheit, which makes it completely economically unviable as a material, even with today's furnace technology.

Orichalcum is, as someone already pointed out, actually some ancient alloy that naturally occurred only in one specific region until the mines were completely tapped, much like Damascus Steel.

Ebony is made from wood, not a volcanic substance. Glass is apparently just a lighter form of Ebony in TES, so I guess if Ebony is some sort of metaphor for obsidian, then Glass is pumice in this metaphor.

At least with the dwarven metal, they just said "screw it, we don't have an explanation", and dragon stuff is just made from magic dragons, anyway.

In conclusion, **** this, play Dwarf Fortress if you want crafting and geology to make any ****ing sense in a game.

Malachite was in TES2. Take a look:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Malachite#Malachite

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN, CAPTAIN?!?!

Malachite. Effect: Silence.

SILENCE? MALACHITE IS GLASS ARMOR???? TUNING?!?! VIBRATIONS?!?! DOES GLASS ARMOR SWALLOW THE EFFECTS OF DWEMERIC TUNING LIKE A BLACK HOLE?!!

And if they have a problem with nerdy things, maybe they shouldn't be playing an RPG.

I've come to like you quite a lot for your excellent and informative posts, but these lines might have made me love you. :tongue:


Ay, there's the rub: Bethesda wants to eliminate the lines between RPG's and other games, stating that "Even call of duty has RPG elements". It'd be a worthy goal if they weren't going about it by dumbing down and eliminating those features of RPGs that have traditionally held so much appeal for us "nerds".

Thank you, it's always good to see another dwarf, ready to take on those damnable elves.

Anyway, I wouldn't be terribly vexed by Bethesda trying to make the game into less of a traditional RPG - in fact, I'm quite happy with the innovation - if it weren't for the fact that it holds up the wrong things as examples.

Having "unlocks" is NOT a trait of RPGs. RPGs are NOT about levels or experience points. RPG stands for "Role-Playing Game". I'd rather they focus on giving my character the ability to create their own role, and how it fits into the world than trying to make it appeal to a shooter crowd by jingling some flashy Skinner Box in their face.

The way that TES has traditionally handled the lore is actually quite admirable - they keep it in books or in between the lines of the words that major characters speak. You don't have to understand what is going on, but if you want to put the puzzle together, all the pieces are there for you to do so, and upon doing so, without having been forced to do so, you will gain a greater appreciation of the understanding and the game, itself. If all you want to do is kill crap, however, hey, the Dark Brotherhood is waiting for your sadistic, nihilistic self.

Complex, esoteric knowledge you have to follow up on is homework, but if just leave out the bread crumbs for the interested to follow, understanding the lore becomes a fun game. That's the giant failing of most Fantasy - they try to beat you over the head with a giant stack of lore that nobody cares about until after they get emotionally invested in the story's characters. (I'm looking at you, Lord of the Rings! Most people don't care a bit about the history of Middle Earth until well after they are fans of the series, they just want to read the part where Gandalf fights a Balrog.)

As far as I can tell, forged malachite turns into a green marble material. I can't imagine anyone, except maybe one very vascular orc, wearing armor made of marble. Needless to say, it absolutely could NOT be considered light armor.

That said, I seem to remember, after Morrowind's release, many a thread discussing how ridiculous the concept of armor made of glass was. Fate loves irony + Hipsters love 'irony' = Akatosh is Oblivion's first hipster.

perhaps it has high porosity