A major BUG in power attack code. : V - Skyrim

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:27 pm

That's EXACTLY how it feels, it takes away player skill from the combat and makes it totally random. On Master difficulty all I need is to get hit once or twice by that guy to die, to kill him I need 30-50 ( ? ) successful hits. I don't even use power attacks as there is only A CHANCE that you stagger your opponent while they leave you hopelessly open for attack. 1-2 to 50 while all you need to die is a random instant kill finisher ( in this case even a first hit can be one ) which you can't avoid as there is no animation which would give you a time window to dodge it. FAIL design or fail programming.

I understand what you mean :foodndrink:

(But I'm not adverse to stripping out player skill from PC combat ~I'm not advocating it be done in TES... but I usually prefer it that way in RPGs. :shrug:)

My guess is that you are right, and it will be looked at, possibly changed somewhat (unless it is really on purpose); It does seem "un-TES-like" to me on reflection.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:02 pm

In the video the bandit clearly hits you, he is obviously much stronger then you are. You're not even trying to block it with a shield. If you want realism, you would be dead anyway. You had the chance to bloke the power attack that triggers the finishing move but you failed to do so. Its your own fault not the games.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:55 pm

Well I was behind a pillar and a dragon did the bite and sling me finisher though the pillar...

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:31 pm

It should have to pass a check against the player's light armor skill or something. It is really hokey the way it's handled now.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:44 pm

In the video the bandit clearly hits you, he is obviously much stronger then you are. You're not even trying to block it with a shield. If you want realism, you would be dead anyway. You had the chance to bloke the power attack that triggers the finishing move but you failed to do so. Its your own fault not the games.

You obviously missed the whole point of my topic. You CAN'T dodge or block finishers. In the moment when you are in range of one of them, you lose control over your character BEFORE you can dodge or block them. The game just executes them on you, you can't be click block or step back because you never have a chance to see them coming. If you don't understand what I mean, I may send you that save file and you can experience it by yourself. Just make sure that the game runs on Master difficulty.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:40 pm

The way it works is rather frustrating though. As soon as they begin the animation for the attack it just locks you into the finisher animation with no way you avoid taking the death. When you would be able to either block or avoid the hit if you weren't otherwise locked into an animation with control taken away from you. It's also weird the way it happens because they will take a power swing with a big 2hander, and then lock you into the unavoidable death animation instantly after they finish the last swing. It usually happens to me when I block an attack and then try to get my own quick attack in and they'll insta-cheese me before I even start my swing. When in reality they're using a big 2hander. They shouldn't be able to swing at you, get blocked and then execute another swing instantly and lock you into a certain death animation.

This is exactly what happens.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:01 am

It DOES matter as your chance to dodge it before it lands is taken away from you. You lose control over your character, before the animation of that power attack even shows up. It totally removes the player skill influence in combat.

Video one; I seen you dodge but the NPC quickly reacted with another swing you walked into O-o game said "o snap hes doomed"!
wasnt a matter of the game taking over, moreso that you walked into an attack which rolled a perfect 20

That happened to me a few times now.. mostly with dragons NOM NOM NOMing my head. T-T

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:26 am

I've got no problem with NPC's finishing me off. Makes it feel fair. ANd what's the problem with dying? Just load....

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:22 pm

I've got no problem with NPC's finishing me off. Makes it feel fair. ANd what's the problem with dying? Just load....

I have no problem with that either, as long I don't lose control over my character before I can react to that attack. Character control is fundamental to game design, someone screwed up here.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:28 am

I like it. Its an extra bit of a challenge that is imo "rpg-y"

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:59 pm

ANd what's the problem with dying? Just load....

[] You understood what roleplaying games are about.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:38 pm

Yeah, I agree it definitely should be fixed/tweaked/whatever. The finishing moves as a whole are really my only "real" complaint about the otherwise masterpiece(IMO) of a game, and I wish I could just turn them off completely. NPCs just being able to cheese you like that is kind of ridiculous though. I've had it happen a few times and it's highly frustrating. They will swing at you and you can either avoid it or block it and then immediately after that swing with no delay they cheese you like that with no way to avoid it.

Looks like we are not alone in our observations. I totally agree that's a RPG, but it's a fail design. Take a look at Mount and Blade Warband for example. It has fun, challenging combat system build around reading your opponent moves, dodging, blocking, timing your actions and counter-attacking. On the top of that basic combat system there is a great RPG skill system. You really can have both.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:41 pm

A request for clarification. I see two points being made in this topic:

(1) If an enemy is in a position from which a successful hit on you would kill you, then it kills you before you can react/dodge/block.

(2) Sometimes enemies instantly kill the player even though not even a successful power attack by them could reduce his health to 0.

As for now, I only see evidence of (1), including that Bandit Chief with his warhammer (warhammers are well-known to do a lot of damage). And I am not saying (1) is a good thing; I consider it a design flaw. But I don't see any evidence for (2). Can somebody really confirm this observation? I remember getting "killed with power" several times, but all of these times I could theoretically explain by (1) because enemies either had big greatswords/warhammers or destruction spells blasting away a lot of health at once (or bite attacks; frost dragons in particular). I would be very interested in proofs that (2) happens.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:54 pm

I mean this entirely in good fun, with no intention to bash or offend anyone so please don't take it the wrong way.

I was thinking about this "problem" though and it made me laugh when I thought about something. I wonder how many people are that are okay with the way this works, are the same people that didn't like the fact that you could miss enemies while swinging right at them in the older TES games

. Because it's really the same thing, a dice roll. The only difference is now they've removed 99% of the dice rolls, but left that 1% that happens out nowhere and is really frustrating. I wouldn't mind something like that happening and taking the control out of my hands if the rest of the combat worked that way. If I had a chance to miss even swinging right at an enemy and they to had a chance to miss me, based on skill level and RNG.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:51 pm

I mean this entirely in good fun, with no intention to bash or offend anyone so please don't take it the wrong way.

I was thinking about this "problem" though and it made me laugh when I thought about something. I wonder how many people are that are okay with the way this works, are the same people that didn't like the fact that you could miss enemies while swinging right at them in the older TES games

. Because it's really the same thing, a dice roll. The only difference is now they've removed 99% of the dice rolls, but left that 1% that happens out nowhere and is really frustrating. I wouldn't mind something like that happening and taking the control out of my hands if the rest of the combat worked that way. If I had a chance to miss even swinging right at an enemy and they to had a chance to miss me, based on skill level and RNG.

Exactly, govern my damage output, damage blocked, health, mana, stamina, skills, resilience, lockpicking, speech craft etc. , but don't take away the control over my character and what he blocks or hits.