Kynareth / Kyne

Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:30 pm

It's said that Kyne/Kynareth taught the early Nords how to use the Dragon Tongue, even sending Paarthurnax as her emissary (of sorts). So I'm wondering, what is the connection between Kynareth and the dragons themselves? I mean, Kynareth is the sky goddess, and the dragons do have air superiority (second only to the cliff racers). The Thu'um seems to be a significant link connecting them all. Are they her daughters?

On a related note, Kyne was called Shor's wife (whatever that means).....isn't she basically the de facto head of the Nordic pantheon?
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cheryl wright
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:05 am

Shor's the defacto head of the Nordic Pantheon - he just happens to be headless (and heartless!).

You'll notice he is still revered and venerated by the people of Skyrim, despite his being 'half-dead'. I think he is less seen as destroyed/dead/annihilated and more seen as missing/hiding/healing.

Or probably more importantly you have Talos. Talos is the God who fills the void Shor left and is generally agreed to be made up of various human individuals who all were suspected avatars of Shor. Some people see this as Shor pulling himself back together through Talos. So while Kyne might have been Shor's wife, Talos would have been his heir.

However if you read any of the Nord in-game books (especially ones that pre-date Skyrim) Kyne is a huge player for the Nords, and with Shor gone and Talos not yet quickened she's the God who took care of that Orphaned Race.

As to the connection between herself and Dragons, I'm unsure. Kyne's primary aspect is wind/storm/air whereas dragons are primarily entities of 'Time'. I think these differences make them unrelated at a fundamental level and instead only similar in shallow secondary nature.

PURE SPECULATION

Dragons are the children of Akatosh, and probably in their pride and arrogance use elements of Kyne's sphere with little regard for her. However two can play at that game, and she was able to teach the humans (for she is the Mother of Men!) how to use her sphere (air/wind/voice) in the way that Dragons do (shout!).
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Amie Mccubbing
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:25 pm

Remember that Akatosh really 'ent' Alduin, not in the same way that Auriel is Alduin. No, Aka is Auriel with the heart of Shor welded into his chest.

Also, one of the leaders of the rebellion in Cyrodiil, Morihaus, is described a both a "winged bull" and "the breath of kyne". Though the Song of Pelinal portrays him as a literal bull with wings, I don't think it's at all unlikely that this is a later misapprehension of a metaphor or euphemism for a draconic aspect.
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R.I.p MOmmy
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:16 am

Kyne is the original master of Thu'um though right, or is that something more primordial? I've been trying to understand how Thu'um is connected to the Ehlnofex.
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liz barnes
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:28 pm

Breath and air is the foundation of Voice. Without it you cannot project your thought into the world. Draw your own conclusions.
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Monika
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:14 pm

I'd say MD hit the nail on the head.
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lucy chadwick
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:54 am

Don't let the man voice, the fact that they call her "he" or anything that implies Paarhturnaax is a dude-dragon fool you.

She is actually one of Kyne's daughters.
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Maria Leon
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:27 pm

Don't let the man voice, the fact that they call her "he" or anything that implies Paarhturnaax is a dude-dragon fool you.

She is actually one of Kyne's daughters.


Actually, now that you mention it, the fact that dragons apparently do not reproduce in any way makes me wonder why they refer to dragons by gender at all...

Presumably, if their race is incapable of reproduction in any way, they wouldn't need genitalia or discernible gender of any sort, so you should probably refer to dragons as "it"...

Of course, with that said, in Eastern tradition, I know that dragons are considered the ultimate expression of masculinity (or more directly, as phallic symbols), in opposition to the Phoenix, which is considered the ultimate expression of the feminine, thanks to its parthenogenesis.
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Justin Hankins
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:38 am

Presumably, if their race is incapable of reproduction in any way, they wouldn't need genitalia or discernible gender of any sort, so you should probably refer to dragons as "it"...

"It" is mainly used for objects, and conveys a rather derogatory meaning when applied to living beings, IMO. Personally I'd use a non-plural "they" (language rules be damned) for a non-specific gender pronoun, otherwise things tend to default to what the subject seems like, and the dragons don't make me think of girls, that's for sure.
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Kay O'Hara
 
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Post » Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:52 am

... and the dragons don't make me think of girls, that's for sure.


[Dragon looms above Donkey]
Donkey: Oh, what large teeth you have!
[Dragon roars]
Donkey: I mean, white sparkly teeth! I know you probably hear this all the time from your food, but you must bleach or something 'cause that's one dazzling smile you got there! And do I detect a hint of minty freshness? And you know something, you're...
[the Dragon looks closer and Donkey sees she's female]
Donkey: A girl dragon... Oh, sure, I mean of COURSE you're a girl dragon! You're just reeking of feminine beauty and... hey, what's the matter with you, you got somethin' in your eye?
[Dragon blows out a heart-shaped cloud of smoke]
Donkey: Ohh... well, you know, I gotta go. I'm an asthmatic, I don't hold with smoke rings and stuff. SHREK!
[Dragon picks Donkey up and carries him away]
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c.o.s.m.o
 
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