I may be a bit late to the party for this post, but I just needed to say something (and hope it hasn't been said already).

I agree that complexity for the sake of complexity is pointless. I saw it all too often in my design classes.

A lot of the complexity mentioned by the OP, though, adds variety to the game. Greater variety allows for greater customization and makes it easier to create or set up something that is your own.

Complexity for the sake of customization and personalization is not only NOT pointless, it's often an endearing quality to have in a game.

Probably because it is. It feels great on console, though.

Hope that's some consolation. Get it?

Totally agree. Let the series evolve dammit.

It is evolving, but (at least for many players) in a non-satisfactory manner. Why not make constructive criticism in order to let them know what the community wants?

Morrowind is mentioned in every sentence because many people feel it is better than Skyrim in many aspects.
It set a standard in certain areas that Bethesda has not been able to recreate in neither Oblivion nor Skyrim.
On the other hand, both Oblivion and Skyrim brought features to the series that drastically improved the experience.

It is not your job to judge whether criticism is constructive or not - Bethesda will decide that for you.
This forum is about feedback. Telling people to "shut up" and "go play Morrowind" is plain stupid.

This is so funny. When I grabbed Morrowind off the gamestop shelf for my xbox (which I purchased with the express purpose of playing TES:MW) many years ago, I wondered, why are they starting with "III"? To which my brain responded, "oh, must be like a Star Wars thing". haha

I always hate it when people go 'don't like X? Then go back to playing X!' That is such a bloodcurdling non-argument I can't even begin to describe how utterly annoying it is to read them.

I absolutely LOVE Skyrim. Skyrim is one of the best games I have ever played in my life, and that is saying a lot. I don't think I have ever spent this much time on a single title since the Mass Effect games and Morrowind before that. But this does not mean I don't see the potential for Skyrim to grow and evolve even more. No, Morrowind was not perfect. Far, FAR from it. However, it had a LOT of options for the player. There were many opportunities for customisation in every respect: weapons, clothing/armour (you could even wear clothes and armour at the same time, so you'd be wearing robes over your armour!), spellcrafting, many many factions... I don't think that any game I played after Morrowind ever offered that much freedom and customisation to the player.

I understand why Skyrim needed to let some of these things go, or at least simplify them. However, I really think Skyrim could be improved with more customisation options such as they were available in Morrowind. Different kinds of armour and clothing that can be combined to look unique, spellcrafting so you can make spells suited specifically to your playstyle and needs. Mods will provide a lot of these things but it would also be very nice if official DLC would add some extra stuff to Skyrim.


I can agree to the OP to an extent, but fast travel is alright I think. That's one of those things where you can just promise yourself not to use it. Maybe a toggle in the options menu would be nice, but it wouldn't be a priority.

I agree. I'd like a bit more complexity, but it works as is. Just hoping the same for the next game. ;P

At last, some balanced well thought out response that seems to jink the urge of others to pigeonhole every single post around here in either the Hater or Fan-boy camps.
Kudos to you, brave SIr!

Because I don't want Morrowind 2.0 when I have Morrowind 1.0

I want to buy a new game, have a new experience, see a new world. I don't want a rehashed version of something I already have. I don't see how its constructive wanting a series to regress either.

Maybe you have issues with change, I embrace it.



But its not what 'the community' wants. Its what a percentage of ONE forum wants. The Elder Scrolls is at its height of popularity, its hardly a failing series. Just because a % of people on this ONE forum think the game should be more like Morrowind doesn't mean EVERY player wants that. The fact that so many people on this very forum tell you to 'go play Morrowind' just shows that its not that popular of an opinion. You then have to take into account that this forum is hardly representative of all players. You just have to look across the board at Twitter, GameFaqs, GameSpot etc. to see that its not an overwhelming majority who want to see Morrowind 2.0

AND then anyway, even if they did put a lot of Morrowind-like features in, there would be complaints that its 'not similar enough' or 'too similar'.

I like change for the better.
Change that means a reduction, a substraction, less, I dont like that much.
Spellmaking gone = less.
Customisation slots have gone from 20+ to 6, I cannot find that a good change.
There are very, very few enemy types in Skyrim compared to previous titles, this is not a good change. There arent even any daedra, outside two quests.
The quest log is the absolute sheer minimum of what it can be, this is not a good change.

While I love Skyrim to death and have 150 hours played on it after three weeks, in these regards it simply cannot hold a candle to previous titles in the series, in particular Morrowind.
So when #3 of the series does these things so well, and #5 doesnt include them at all, or severely reduced, then I say: I wish the game was more like Morrowind. Silver weapons to hurt etherial ghosts and deadra? I guess too complicated. Gone ><
This is not wanting Morrowind 2.
This is lamenting the loss.

As a sidebar, I think youre wrong about what you say about these forums.
This is where the dedicated fans go, people who have supported Bethesda for over a decade and will continue to do so.
Its an excellent way for Bethesda to get a representative sample of the very people they target there games at.

Honestly, this simplicity = less depth = less variety thing boogles me.

Why? Why is doing more to achieve one thing better than directly doing that one thing?
Why are attributes more complex? How do you have more choice?
Because you do not. You raised attributes to achieve the same thing you did with perks and skills. You raised them to have more health, more magicka, more stamina, and be better at the skills you use. Again, same things what Perks and stats do in Skyrim!

But this isn't really about stats now, is it. No more weapon types won't make the game more complex, more varied, or more deep, unless these weapons do matter. There was really no difference between throwing weapons, bows and crossbows in Morrowind, they basically served the same purpose, the exact same way, none of them really had any unique properties. Same thing with the tantos/katanas whatever. What's the difference between a katana and longsword in Morrowind? Nothing, oh, the katana might damage more, but really that's the same thing as the difference between different swords in Skyrim.
It's just variance in aesthetics, no functional difference, no real variety other than having the same sword in a different color, no real depth, no real choice.
Heck, Skyrim did better by introducing unique properties for weapon types with perks, finally.

Other common complaint is the armor slots, because those are the end-all of RPG complexity, right? Oh no, I have a ring of fire resistance and ice resistance, and I cannot decide what to wear... oh well, I have ten fingers, lol. Wouldn't less slots make your choices matter more, instead of weaing you magic resistance pants all day, now you need to know the right time to use it?
And even the aesthetic choice thing doesn't hold much ground as you are always limited to the armor found in the game. Yay, I can wear shoulderpads on one shoulder, too bad none of them look good with my eyes... Not to mention the game mechanics themselves, you might go around shirtless, only to realise you die a lot, as not wearing armor makes you easier to hit, and it doesn't really add any extras either.
If you really want to be unique in your armor, learn to model one.

I agree about the amount of different armor and weapon types, made the world seem more believable, and the different people more diverse. In Skyrim (and Oblivion) I get the feeling almost all bandits are the same. Same goes for guards. They could at least have made different types of fur armor, with all the different animals and such.

Great game though, loved Morrowind and best game ever and all of that stuff, but let us just enjoy the game. And if anything we should [censored] about all the stuff we were promised and didn't get, instead of all the stuff we wanted.

If the attributes are made to offer the choices they could offer (more complex and rewarding interactions with the game and the gameworld through boundaries and allowances of various kinds -- I don't think I need to give you examples, you've been given plenty in many threads in recent months), I don't see why you'd ask. You simply assume off hand that people want them hamfisted and [censored] up in the game just to see some numbers that do nothing in particular. It may be hard, but think for yourself, try to step in shoes of those wanting attributes back, what would you want them to do if they were in, what would you think they'd do were they implemented.