I'm completely against this. It's such a gimmick and very juvenile. Anyone who's actually fired a gun knows just how ridiculous the idea of running around hold two guns is. Especially two 10mm SMG's. You really don't have a clue as to just how big that round is. It's not just a little bit bigger than a 9mm. It's a large round that's not very easy to handle. The actual 10 SMG in the game should be a two-handed weapon. Anyways, I don't like this idea. Whenever someone brought it up on the Fallout 3 boards, I always voted against it. Fans of MW2 will want it, but that's about it. There's no reason to cater to them.

So people who dont want it are snobish and people who do are juvenile?

Can people disagree with out insults?

I dont think people are juvenile for wanting it. If thats their bag, fine. And im hardly a snob for not liking it. I have always found it to look cheesy, on any game.

Mmmmm cheese.

The Assassins I know use knvies, silencers, and scopes. Since when do they go in guns blazing with 2 full automatics raised above their arms?

lol terrible idea but your thinking i like that

Clearly you have not watched enough action movies.

The poll answers could be interpreted a whole different way, if you know what I mean :hubbahubba:
On topic, I think dual wielding would be cool, but it would have to be limited to pistols or at most submachine guns.

Seriously guys .. its a single player game not an fps. who would it hurt to have this. No one... i personally think it would be pretty awesome. just like everything you do with your character .. these types of things are optional and is the person who plays decision whether they want to use it or not. something that could level it out tho is a perk that gives you somewhat of an accuracy or damage bonus when not using duel wield.

a62172...

Um Reloading 2 guns is not as difficult as you think . using 2 is not very effective don't get me wrong but It is possible just takes a little bit more time to do.

alright personally i dont really like teh idea of it but it wouldnt be to bad if you the only way you could do it was through a perk and the perks requirements were say oh.. 7 or 8 str and....75 gun skill. or EW skill lol dont forget them

Can you please show me the snobbery posts? I believe almost all of us behaved here very well, and made no remarks or comments that can be snobberish. I don't think anyone was arguing either except stating their opnion. So I am offended you are calling us snobs here. Just remember before you point a finger at us, you have 3 fingers pointing back at you.

This is a single player game, we should be thinking about expanding the game in every way. Trying to slave the game to a single view point is self defeating. Since we get to choose which feats we gain while leveling, then that means we can edit the game to our liking as we play. Not to mention the other ways we already have to alter the game like hardcoe mode, the difficulty setting and the on/off switch for iron sights. So please, lets focus on everything than can be added and how to best to go about it; and not on how much you don't like it.

1)Guns: Duel wielding here should be limited to one handed pistols, it should require a feat to get, and that feat should be fairly difficult. Maybe 10+ minimum level, 6 agility, guns 60+, and an increase in strength required for the gun*.

2)Unarmed combat: the animations show both arms and leg use in making attacks, so duel wielding doesn't apply to this fighting type. There are specializations to unarmed combat that can be found in the game. If anyone wants to add something to unarmed combat it makes sense to add it that way(i.e. through making a new style to learn).

3)Melee weapons: Duel wielding here should be limited to one handed melee weapons, it should require a feat to get, and that feat should be fairly difficult. Maybe 10+ minimum level, 5 agility, melee weapons 60+, and an increase in strength required for the weapon*. Melee weapons should be rethought in regards to one/two handedness and the strength requirement. If a weapon could be used either way, then the strength requirement should be lower when using that weapon two handed. Once you sort out which weapons can be used one handed, then implementing shields would become possible. I would love to see shields introduced into the game. Since guns can target body parts, the game would have to calculate where the shield is from a lot of angles. I wonder how difficult that would be to code on this engine?

* What I mean is if you have a gun/sword that is one handed with a strength of 3 to wield, then to duel wield that weapon the strength minimum becomes 4(or 5).

After thoughts: If duel weapons are allowed then the current weapon shortcut keys(1,3-8) will have to be modified to allow those two weapons on a single key; otherwise you would always have to use tab.

I was thinking about this very same stuff yesterday. Personally I think it would have to be a perk, and one that you couldn't get without a very high skill with the determined weapon.

Personally I'd like to see more than that though. Like electronic lock picking, that could only be accessed as a perk with a certain amount of level needed in lock picking AND science. Also, I'd like to see more melee and unarmed moves, that perhaps could only be taught to the player through a DLC quest, once they have so much invested in strength and agility and the subsequent skills.

Basically I just wanna see more!

Still having a blast now mind, decided to use a stealth boy to get past the no man's land between Goodsrings and Vegas a short while after Prim, then went back after doing some jobs ( not meeting Mr house ) and went back to chase down Benny. Now I'm trying to get my skills up to confront him with violence.

Very entertained personally. I'd like to hear some more music though, that's the one thing I thing I prefer from 3. Also I do now realise how much I enjoyed 3's aesthetics, they did the big city thing really well imo. That said I haven't been everywhere in the Mojave yet.

Snobbery may not be the right word, but there is a point to the statement. I have read several arguments against this that are emotional. They are about how someone feels about the setting, or the difference between FPS and RPG. Feeling and opinions, bah. This game is a single player game that can be played many different ways. Not just YOUR way. I want to see this game grow. That means more options not less. If you want less then simply don't use the parts you don't like.

Bleh.

Anyone who thinks dual-wielding in movies or games is the [censored] has clearly never actually tried to do it.

It would have to be at the loss of accuracy.

Actually I have a little training in two weapon fighting. I was in the SCA many years ago and learned several styles. I found for me I could use either weapon effectively, but I had a hard time using both offensively at the same time. In other words the 'off' blade for me was defensive. I knew others who could fight offensively with two weapons. Very hard to beat in a fight where the first solid strike can win the match.

I can see it now, running into a battle, dual Fatmans hurling a rain of nuclear destruction.

Nah, thanks. One weapon is enough.

I think it would be within a certain type of weapon range. I.E pistols and maybe some light smg's.

I voted no but I could see it working well with Melee weapons.

Dual Wielding need not be game breaking if done correctly. Those who are thinking of reduced accurancy for being able to attack twice in the same time is struck in the turn-based D&D mode. Actual mechanics in a 3D realtime game should be closer to life. Behold my proposed dual wielding system! (Devs make it come true please!)----->

Requirements:
1) The guns you can use in both hands cannot have a combined STR requirement more than your current STR. Hence you got to be really strong to be dual wielding bigger guns.

In VATS:
1) You can queue attacks from either hand at any time. AP costs and accurancy remain the same for the right hand weapon. So if you queue all attacks from right hand, then there is no difference between single and duel wielding.
2) AP costs and accurancy is reduced by 20% for the left-hand weapon. Damage is reduced by 10%. That means you have more flexiabilty on how to queue your attacks. You might just be able to slip a lower AP cost attack from your left-hand into the queue. Of course, due to DT, the weaker shot may deal much lower than the main weapon. This leads to quite a few strategic choices in the gun and ammo type for your off-hand.

Out-side VATS:
1) No iron sight. Right-click fires the right weapon and left-click fires the left weapon. Damage is reduced by 10% for the left-hand weapon. This is good for certain guns that take a while to between shots.
2) If you hold down both mouse buttons to fire, you cannot move without drastically increasing your bullet spread. Additional 100% bullet spread (compared to normal) when moving. Each point of AGI and STR above the gun requirements will reduced the additional spread by 10%.

Bonus:
1) You can now use and equip shields!
2) You can hold gun for ranged attacks and a melee weapon for close range attacks without switch weapons.
3) Right combination of melee attacks (example: left-left-right) can trigger unique combo/animations.

did you read any of my posts? I support dw melee only.

Cheers Love.

Start at page one. then start reading.

amazing how worked up these folks get over hypothetical situations.

I am a sword fighting and pugilism performer and my specialty is two handed knives and that fits my personal preferred choice of melee combat. If trained correctly two handed knife fight can be quite deadly.


-x

The first part sounds spot on. Your strength requirements seem to high. A +1 or +2 to the current strength sounds better.
In vats, I would leave the AP cost alone. Weapons fire/reload at different speeds and AP reflects this. Accuracy needs to be reduced some when duel wielding pistols but not with melee weapons. I also fully disagree with reducing a guns damage just because it is in your off hand. After all, if you figure in your "to-hit" ratio into DPS, then you are reducing the damage over time for BOTH weapons.
Iron sights should be removed, replacing that button with firing the off weapon makes perfect sense. The base spread should be increased. If the movement spread is a multiplier of the base spread, then nothing more needs be changed. If the movement spread is just a number added to base spread than that number should be increased some for duel wielding guns. Reload for guns should be increased as well; maybe a x1.5 or x2. Not sure about penalties to hit while moving. If it works off the base spread number, then no adjustment would be necessary.
Your bonus #3 sounds cool but I am but sure if it fits into Fallout. Most fighting games I have played get 6 or more buttons for their combos. Only having two buttons seems kinda lame compared to that. And it adds an element of difficulty that doesn't fit the RPG half. Unless the combos could be used in vats. That would be kind of cool.

Nah i like the way it is, it just would not seem right to me with that in fallout.