Thief class totally broken

Post » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:39 pm

Sneak is in fact overpowered, because the AI is just too dumb to handle it. Its one of the very few major gripes I have with Skyrim. Here's hoping that either Bethesda or some good modders can iron this out.

  • You can shoot arrows in peoples heads, hide, and they'll just go back to standing around as if nothing happened, with an arrow stuck in their head. Not only does this look and feel completely stupid... it makes bows and daggers too easy to use. Once NPCs have taken damage from you, they should stay alert until you either kill them or leave the zone for more than 5 to 10 minutes. Nobody, not even a fantasy world NPC character, would go back to business as usual after taking a freaking arrow to the head. It feels stupid, glitchy, unrealistic, just way off of what you'd expect from a game of this caliber.
  • You can slit an NPC's throat right in front of his buddies and they won't notice and much less care. How would you react if that guy you just talked to a minute ago is laying on the floor with his throat cut open as you come back on your patrol? NPCs in Skyrim just don't care they'll walk around the corpse completely oblivious to what happened.
  • You can literally stand right in front of NPCs, they won't notice. It would be okay if you actually used invisibility, but its not okay when you're not. No matter how high your stealth and how large the level difference, if you walk right in front of an NPC it should detect you. Otherwise sneaking is just way to easy because you can safely ignore patrol paths and just walk up and around the NPC to backstab. There should be a 100% detection cone in front of the npc with a radius of 60 to 80 degrees.
  • Light needs to be taken into account more, much more. You shouldn't be able to ninja your way around crowded, well lit zones without putting in some effort, ever, no matter what your perks and level are. You should be required to use invisibility for such endeavours, and it should be limited in a way that makes sense within the game world. Otherwise its just a no-brainer.


In essence, NPC AI needs to become more natural because right now its ridiculously easy to exploit.
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April
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:54 am

I agree 100% with that.
Also it's ok, if NPC go in the "alert, but stand still" mode, if they hear something, but NOT if their friend was just shot directly in front of them.

In that case, they should go in another mode. They should try to find cover and start to search in the whole area for an enemy.
(Note: They do search for an enemy, if they have a clue, where the attack came from, but sometimes they don't have a clue.
But in that case, they shouldn't be like "oh, I think I've heard something", if you just killed their buddy.)
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Andrew Perry
 
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Post » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:37 pm

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


EXPLOITING WHAT?

Rising 100 sneaking with some perks on it? Enchanting my gear? Crafting a pair of daedric mace?

what the fu** did i exploit, can u kindly point me that?

Did i exploit a game by using sneak attacks?

Did i exploit a game because of +magic resistance gear?

Don't make me laugh. In my playstyle there's no exploitation. I tuned down my experience to the point my stealthy toon doesn't use its strenght anymore and it still totally unbalanced.

You just have to be honest and admit the combat system is a utter fail, untill some modder will fix that.

No LoS restriction, overpowered talents, absurd gear scaling. Poor AI, old and inadequate combat system. Is that hard to understand?

Stop with the "you exploit the game" lie. I did not, the game failed, plain and simple. No one of us who played decently a sneaking character exploited the game. It's just THAT bad, no matter how hard you try to defend this side of Skyrim.



In my next play thru i'll be sure to build my stealthy rogue/thief toon by not using Stealth at all, because some incredibly smart people said i'm exploiting the game. Makes so fu*ing sense.
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Katie Louise Ingram
 
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Post » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:48 pm

The worst thing is, sneaking is already overpowered without any magic, without any additional equipment, and with the skill not maxed out and without any perks used.

The AI is simply too stupid in many cases, and seems to have extremely bad eyes. Sneaking just doesn't feel right that way.
Also they should take the color of the environment into account, not only the light level.

Even with my low sneaking skill (+ the first perk in sneak + the Brotherhood boots), an enemy totally didn't see me, while I was crouching 4 meters in front of him in a totally WHITE ICE CAVE. The "sneak eye" didn't even open up a bit.



So yes ... mods are needed here very much.
I should have known that before ... than I had used a mage or big fat warrior for my first play-through.
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Jason White
 
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Post » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:56 pm

Sorry all but i do share the same pain of the OP.

Pretty much the same stuff.

I built a sneaky character, absolutly no magic used. Conjuration/illusion stuck at initial values. Then i went for crafting stuff, enchanting and smithing.

Ok at level 46 at master the game is a joke. Actually, it was a joke 20 levels or so before.

You all yell at this guy "then stop to do X" "stop to use Y".

Sure. This is NOT how it is intended to work.

I'm running hugely def capped with dragonbone leather. I take no damage from melees and magic attacks . Actually, i don't even stab with daggers anymore, since i do much more damage stabbing with deadric swords.

Def magic is like 26+26+26+25 %, and i also have +50% frost resistance on boots. Cool, it's OP gear, won't use it.

Fine, now i'm running with nightingale (best looking armor, btw), mostly def capped, average magic resistance. Still pathetic easy.
Stopped using even my nightingale, i'm now running with a leather armor, like 520 armor now, 30% magic def. At least i got some damage from flying drake. I can spam healing pots, so i stopped using them. I also stopped using conjuration heals. In fact, i don't heal at all now, just the rec from 33% higher health regene. Not using abosrb health enchant nor the paralyze one.

I used to go around with fully enchanted deadric maces. Damage was insane, i had like 890 total (i refused to use the alchemy - enchanting loop bug). Was hitting so hard that i actually stopped going sneak. Stabbing with 12*880 was much higher the stabbing with 210*30 daedric daggers. Stopped using those blades, reverted to just a single dagger. Still one shotting (or very close to) with just a daedric dagger. Still to much, now i use dwarven maces. it takes me some more attacks, but it's like 4 attacks to an ancient dragon, 3 to a giant. Still to much, i stopped using marked for death shout to at least have a challange in the very few times i'm forced to go open melee.

Yeah, because i also had to not use Invis pot, shouts or magic.

Since higher sneaking and mufle stuff almost make you undetectble, i quite stopped enchanting/upgrading things. At least now if they do see me, i'm dead. Cool. Stopped placing poisons on othesr pockets, stopped usiong CC-Shouts / talents.

Last two days i played as a marksman. Like 62 skill level, daedric bow, 2 perks invested. AI took ages to spot me, i kept steam rolling every elite and boss i met.

Now i'm playing as a caster. 31 or so destruction, a caster set entirly brought from vendors. It took me ages to kill an average bandit. Dieng almost every 6 seconds.

I invested loads of hours as a rogue, loved the class, but for the challange i felt forced to go mage.

50 euros spent and, if i want a challenging master-difficulty run i need:

-Avoid using daggers and/or dual wielding "almost" high end craftable gear.
-Avoid using high end armor
-Avoid using enchants : absorb health, paralyze, stacking +one hand damage, stacking +fortify light armor, fortify magfic resistance
-Avoid using combination of poisons/pots --> no alchemy
-Avoid using Shouts: No marked for death, no disarm shout, no gap closer dash, no freeze shout.
-Avoid using unique armor sets like the DB ones or Nightingale.
-Avoid using high end Bows
-Avoid using two different magic schools.
-Avoid using "unique" power such as the nightingale stealth, and the immolation thing from DElves (yeah because of the insane AoE damage or damage @ weak-to-fire foes)


I can actually keep going forever, yet you have no right to criticize this guy for his play style, because we can't dump this game so much to the point half of the features are "ethically" taken away by our love for this game and the efforts to keep it challenging.

This is the same of a sneaky or not marksman as well, and i dunno if the games just get totally broken even when playing a caster with unique +fortify spell school +fortify magika regen stuff stacked stuff. It for sure became utterly broken for a warrior that, even by mistake, got to the defense cap + average magic defense.

In this department, Skyrim failed so hard it's hard to believe.



With regards to the class issues I totally agree with you, hit the nail right on the head sh0ckv3l!!
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Tina Tupou
 
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Post » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:16 pm

Thief guild is pretty gitchy, the quest are all really hard because the NPC's are [censored] stupid. at one point there was a city guard in a dongeon I was trying to do and everytime I used the Aura shout he'd run from where ever he was to tell me to stop shouting then kill me after the scolding....
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Lil Miss
 
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Post » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:12 pm

This.

My warrior-like character blocks giants strikes like they're hitting me with feathers. On master.


Liar
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Lillian Cawfield
 
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Post » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:17 pm

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


EXPLOITING WHAT?

Rising 100 sneaking with some perks on it? Enchanting my gear? Crafting a pair of daedric mace?

what the fu** did i exploit, can u kindly point me that?

Did i exploit a game by using sneak attacks?

Did i exploit a game because of +magic resistance gear?

Don't make me laugh. In my playstyle there's no exploitation. I tuned down my experience to the point my stealthy toon doesn't use its strenght anymore and it still totally unbalanced.

You just have to be honest and admit the combat system is a utter fail, untill some modder will fix that.

No LoS restriction, overpowered talents, absurd gear scaling. Poor AI, old and inadequate combat system. Is that hard to understand?

Stop with the "you exploit the game" lie. I did not, the game failed, plain and simple. No one of us who played decently a sneaking character exploited the game. It's just THAT bad, no matter how hard you try to defend this side of Skyrim.



In my next play thru i'll be sure to build my stealthy rogue/thief toon by not using Stealth at all, because some incredibly smart people said i'm exploiting the game. Makes so fu*ing sense.


You're not really that bright, are you, lad?

It's not overpowered when you're at max skill using gear that stacks the sneak attack damage to a maximum, because...

MAX LEVEL SKILL + POWERFUL EQUIPMENT = POWERFUL TIMES

You don't understand what balance really is you're actually calling that overpowered, in the sense you're trying to say.

Now if you were to be able to do that using crappy gear and without being so leveled, then it would be overpowered.

Let me know when you can one-shot Giants using iron daggers and without using the Dark Brotherhood gear. Then you'd be right at calling something overpowered.

Get it?

Or should I use smaller words?
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Alexis Estrada
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:48 am

Post limit.
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Chloe Yarnall
 
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