dislike the thalmor

Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:54 am

yea, because they were blades. they really had them by the balls with that one. you know what? i was a blade once, and i didn't know sh*t about dragons until skyrim. so even with her extremely detailed map of dragon burials (which were located everywhere) it wouldn't have take much effort from the altmer to actually spy on a dragon rather than beating a bunch of homeless folk.


The dragon resurrections according to Delphine were occurring in order starting from the south/southeast going counterclockwise. Most if not all of that area is under Stormcloak control, in a sense. Thalmor are pretty much hunted there, which is why you don't ever see any of them there (not sure if random encounters count. Haven't seen the Thalmor down that far, only the Imperials escorting a Stormcloak prisoner.)

So they couldn't really spy down that far, and trying to hire a local to "spy on a dragon" sounds suicidal, and probably wouldn't accept it at all. Besides, they were beating people for worshiping Talos, not for information on dragons (speaking in general here. This is not including the special case in the Main Quest.) That captured prisoner was obviously their only source in the region, so it's why they were giving him special attention, even so far as inviting the Thalmor Ambassador to the interrogation.
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Klaire
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:06 am

Incidentally, Light Armor is better at mitigating damage than Heavy Armor in high-level play, and the only thing blocking better than a one-hander is a shield. :P


so they only kind of svck? they run around round with flame(i think) and a mace. plus what is the NPC level cap and at what point do the enemies stop getting harder? i don't think its like fallout. i don't know about that.
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Steve Fallon
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:34 am

The dragon resurrections according to Delphine were occurring in order starting from the south/southeast going counterclockwise. Most if not all of that area is under Stormcloak control, in a sense. Thalmor are pretty much hunted there, which is why you don't ever see any of them there (not sure if random encounters count. Haven't seen the Thalmor down that far, only the Imperials escorting a Stormcloak prisoner.)

So they couldn't really spy down that far, and trying to hire a local to "spy on a dragon" sounds suicidal, and probably wouldn't accept it at all. Besides, they were beating people for worshiping Talos, not for information on dragons (speaking in general here. This is not including the special case in the Main Quest.) That captured prisoner was obviously their only source in the region, so it's why they were giving him special attention, even so far as inviting the Thalmor Ambassador to the interrogation.


oh pleeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaase. the storm cloaks could easily be handled and their deaths wouldn't have resulted in any tension between the thalmor and the empire because they are insurgents. and if they didn't wan't to go investigate dragons because they were afraid of fighting a few more humans then they seriously need to get their priorities straight. plus you find a bunch of thalmor in rifton so explain that!
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Erich Lendermon
 
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Post » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:54 pm

oh pleeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaase. the storm cloaks could easily be handled and their deaths wouldn't have resulted in any tension between the thalmor and the empire because they are insurgents. and if they didn't wan't to go investigate dragons because they were afraid of fighting a few more humans then they seriously need to get their priorities straight. plus you find a bunch of thalmor in rifton so explain that!

You're talking about after you invaded the Embassy. You were asking why they didn't know anything more beforehand and why the Blades seemed to know more than them. Those Thalmor aren't there till the whole fiasco at the Embassy. I personally haven't seen any other Thalmor that far into the Southeast. If there are any that I don't know of, then I'm sorry. Besides, it's not the empire they have to worry about, it's the locals, and the stormcloaks. If it wasn't such an issue, there wouldn't be any stormcloaks in the first place, as they would've already been taken care of before the game even started. (Though I will admit, they were close, as they almost killed Ulfric at the beginning of the game, though that was due to some ingenious ambush on the General's part.)
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Ashley Campos
 
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Post » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:40 pm

I just wanted to point out that Blades have their roots in ancient Akaviri dragon slayers. So they've gained knowledge about dragons nobody else in this era has.
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Daniel Holgate
 
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Post » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:14 pm

I agree about they being too hating to everyone, even other Altmer. But that's it, you kind of derped in the rest of your post.
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priscillaaa
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:41 am

I liked Morrowind but I wouldn't consider myself flamboyant about it.


I'd imagine the thalmor probably be in the next series of Elder Scrolls. Skyrim did seem a bit rushed going for that 11/11/11 date.

Though I'd be much more interested in seeing the races that have been in the elder scrolls series such as Snow Elves or Dwemer.
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JLG
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:24 am

I'm with you on this.


I think it's because, based on in-game observations, someone well trained in light armor can get decent protection. They might not "need" heavier armor.

One handed weapons are faster than two-hand. So a well trained person in light armor who is also well trained in one-hand weapons would be more than a match for almost anyone.


I think Bethesda pretty much has given up on trying to recreate the depth of Morrowind. I had hopes when I saw the Todd Howard interview where he specifically addressed the crappy writing in Oblivion and Fallout 3.

This was a far better attempt than Oblivion and Fallout 3 but it seems to me that the "story" is no longer a priority.

They did add bunnies, butterflies and chickens... :confused:


I read some of the lore and I think the current Aldmeri should be looked at as the result of an older resurgence of Elven nationalism. IIRC, it says that the Aldmeri were a different group of elves or a group that held stricter views of how things should be. They became the ruling class after the Oblivion crisis consolidated power and formed the dominion.

They then broke off relations with the Empire. This lasted for years.

When the war finally broke out the Aldmeri viewed the Blades as a serious threat so they began a campaign to hunt them down.

They probably always disliked the notion of Talos becoming a god and when they got the opportunity they did something about it.

From what I can tell most of the races don't really like/trust each other or at least have strong biases against a particular group. So the Aldmeri attitude isn't so weird to me.

Also, what race is your character? I think different races are treated differently in the game.


ok i have read all of this now. it's probably easy for me because i have a dunmer which allows me a 50% resistance to their fire attacks but i'm not totally convinced that their prowess in combat will impress me in the later levels. overall i like the idea of the elves being aggressive to humans because they believe them to be a threat (and i really feel for their cause after indulging in some of the lore), however, in skyrim the elves look like fools and i can only hope Bethesda doesn't continue to screw them further in DLC
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Naazhe Perezz
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:59 am

I just wanted to point out that Blades have their roots in ancient Akaviri dragon slayers. So they've gained knowledge about dragons nobody else in this era has.


true that. but you can't argue that the elves (who again live thousandsssssss of years) fell short when it came to knowledge of dragons. sure humans could have believed them to be myth but the high elves should have known better. and if i'm supposed to believe that they're all proselytized into some silly cult then i'm just going to say f*** it and kill every one in that game.
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Danielle Brown
 
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Post » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:13 pm

I've enjoyed having the Thalmor around thus far. I like the idea of the empire being challenged not by Daedra or a Daedric worshipping cult but an actual flesh and blood faction of tall yellow snobs.
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Bigze Stacks
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:40 am

You're overthinking the armour thing. They're elves, they wear elven armour; just like Orcs wear Orcish armour and the Dwemer when they were alive would have worn Dwarven armour.

The armour would have been designed with their soldiers and battle tactics in mind.
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Batricia Alele
 
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Post » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:31 pm

You're talking about after you invaded the Embassy. You were asking why they didn't know anything more beforehand and why the Blades seemed to know more than them. Those Thalmor aren't there till the whole fiasco at the Embassy. I personally haven't seen any other Thalmor that far into the Southeast. If there are any that I don't know of, then I'm sorry. Besides, it's not the empire they have to worry about, it's the locals, and the stormcloaks. If it wasn't such an issue, there wouldn't be any stormcloaks in the first place, as they would've already been taken care of before the game even started. (Though I will admit, they were close, as they almost killed Ulfric at the beginning of the game, though that was due to some ingenious ambush on the General's part.)


sorry, i couldn't follow your response, but i was simply stating that if the thalmor wanted to go to the eastern side of the province then the storm cloaks wouldn't be a factor. i mean, have you seen a skirmish between the thalmor and storm cloaks? i don't wan't to spoil anything but it ends with one side effortlessly killing the other. as for a reconnaissance team, the altmor surely could have thought of something. it would have been better than throwing their lives away chasing a blade. seriously though they got their asses kicked during the fight against esbern.
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JaNnatul Naimah
 
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Post » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:48 pm

ok i have read all of this now. it's probably easy for me because i have a dunmer which allows me a 50% resistance to their fire attacks but i'm not totally convinced that their prowess in combat will impress me in the later levels. overall i like the idea of the elves being aggressive to humans because they believe them to be a threat (and i really feel for their cause after indulging in some of the lore), however, in skyrim the elves look like fools and i can only hope Bethesda doesn't continue to screw them further in DLC


I think a Thalmor DLC seems a certainty given their high profile, but relatively minor presence in Skyrim so far.
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Raymond J. Ramirez
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:07 am

I cant be bothered to answer it all but the armour.

Wouldnt it be odd for the "we are superior to everyone" guys to be wearing an armour that isnt a product of their culture ? "yes we are better than everyone, but ah... We liked this orish armour, not that its anywhere near as good as ours though... Yeah".
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jenny goodwin
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:02 am

You're overthinking the armour thing. They're elves, they wear elven armour; just like Orcs wear Orcish armour and the Dwemer when they were alive would have worn Dwarven armour.

The armour would have been designed with their soldiers and battle tactics in mind.


i have nothing against the armor. it looks pretty. i have a full set myself because the whole thing weighs 7 units of weight. its their tactics that i take issue with. if they think that a three elf squad can hold their own against a spider with a maces and a simple fire spells, then.............
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Sarah Kim
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:27 am

They're fundamentalist zealots and racists - their behavior comes down to how the Aldmeri creation story differs from that of most of the humans on Nirn. A lot of that can be gathered from the Momomyth and the various books on faith in Tamriel. Humans have a creation story that portrays it as a positive thing - though their story does admit the gods were ticked into performing it. The traditionalist Aldmeri creation story portrays the even as tragic and violent; it was the time when their ancestors were robbed of paradise and had their divinity torn from them. It portrays humanity and other lesser races and the farthest from divine - things bred by Sithis and Lohrkan to wage war against them and prevent them from returning to the divine state they had before linear time and this limited existence. This traditional Aldmeri (but not exactly popular amongst the general population) creation myth also includes a possible happy ending for the Aldermi - the defeat of the servants of Sithis and children of Lorhkan and their eventual return to divinity.

The Thalmor hold this story far closer to their hearts than the rest of their people and it wholly informs their policies and actions; they see the other races - humans in particular - as the perpetual servants of their great spiritual enemy. They do have a long plan, as one of them says "to demonstrate the superiority of Mer over Men 100 years at a time," and this is partly why they paused after acheiving certain goals. The reason the worship of Talos so offends them is also related to their particular view of creation and of the gods. The idea that a human could ascend to divinity - something that rightly belongs to their people first and foremost - is of course offensive to them. It is probably more than that though - such a god is not part of their religion's happy ending. Their plans, methods, and beleifs are so offensive to those who know them that the Psiijic order (powerful mages who hold an even older Aldmeri religion and view of creation) obsconded with one of the largest of the Summerset Isles and go against their philosophy to a degree to interfere with one of their agents in Skryrim.

Their actions make sense in relation to some traditionalist Aldmeri religious views and those Thalmor who would hunt Talos worshippers amongst largely hostile populations would have to be the most fanatical of true beleivers. Considering that as the sole requirement for the mission most of them have in Skyrim, it would make sense that most of their best and brightest would not be among them. Not only would that be a good way to get your best and brightest killed but they're probably more useful elsewhere.

The books in game do make note that they do not have numerical superiority. What they had, largely, was superior military intelligence and organisation; they were also fighting in mostly unstable lands as a unified force. The Empire at the time they invaded had been barely holding itself together after the eruption of Red Mountain, the defection of much of Black Marsh and Valenwood, and the civil war in Hammerfell. When the Aldmeri Dominion chose to wage war on the Empire they did so when it was least capable of mustering its strength and after they had rooted out all of the Blades operating inside their borders.

The High Elves probably do know better than to think dragons were myth - but they have far less experience with them than humanity. The High Elves did not have a presence that overlapped with the places where dragons had their seat of power - there were two other elven empires who called these places home. Dragons were predominantly a force in proximity to what is now Skyrim; the elves who lived their and would know about them are either extinct (Dwemer) or insane (Falmer.) Had they lived then yes perhaps their lore on the subject would be superior. As it is, even though the human records of dragons were largely relegated as myth, fairytales, or simply put away and forgotten it is still superior to information found elsewhere.

Also, the lore surrounding dragons is problematic for the Thalmor view of creation and their people's place in the world. They beleive themsleves to be the closest descendents to the divine beings that came before - but Alduin in particular and dragons in general are far more closely related to a divine being than they are. Their view of their own divine nature and superiority would have discouraged any serious study of the subject and any existing material would have likely been viewed as heretical. Alduin has not part in their idea of how the world will end either. Basically, what they "know" to be true is inherently incompatible with having an extensive knowledge of dragons; combine that with the fact that they would have needed to rely on the lore, legends, and records of lesser races to acquire such knowledge and it makes sense that they would be quite clueless when all these dragons started showing up.
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Kat Ives
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:36 am

I've enjoyed having the Thalmor around thus far. I like the idea of the empire being challenged not by Daedra or a Daedric worshipping cult but an actual flesh and blood faction of tall yellow snobs.


i like the altmer being the bad guys too. i just wish that they were a little bit more reasonable so that i could join them in making a stable form of government ruled by none other than the wisest creatures in the world. instead i'm forced to kill them because they decided to go on a power trip.
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Alex Vincent
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:55 am



I'd imagine the thalmor probably be in the next series of Elder Scrolls. Skyrim did seem a bit rushed going for that 11/11/11 date.




Yeah, a dlc or expansion won't provide a satisfying conclusion to the Thalmor storyline.
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Daniel Lozano
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:21 am

i like the altmer being the bad guys too. i just wish that they were a little bit more reasonable so that i could join them in making a stable form of government ruled by none other than the wisest creatures in the world. instead i'm forced to kill them because they decided to go on a power trip.


To be fair, they don't represent the majority of Altmer nor are they the oldest or wisest of their people. That would probably be the Psijic Order - which up and left with one of the largest and historically most important of their home islands due to the Thalmor's rise to power.
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brenden casey
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:24 am

The Justiciars are decently equipped, and as Altmer are heavily reliant on magic. When one fought me, he immediately summoned something, got away while his two well-armored henchmen (at least equivalent armor to me, although not smithing-improved or maybe it was, who knows lol) went at me along with the summon. The Justiciar then flung massive amounts of spells at me, and those are a royal pain if you haven't ensured you have the appropriate magic resistance/can dodge spells well (armor is easier to acquire early on as opposed to magic resist). I found them fairly reasonable.

Also, you're the PC? You're supposed to be kind of special.

Lastly, there was something really cool plot-wise to be gained from that mission involving the embassy. Unless you found it irrelevant to your discussion, it seems to me like you missed it. It didn't pertain to the main plot, but rather one of the other more significant plots in the game. And it is juicy, indeed.

The Thalmor are a faction in the Aldmeri Dominion. At one point, the Dominion went silent for like 70 years, which may have implied a huge amount of internal strife/civil war. However, the Empire didn't have any intelligence to work with on why they sat still for as long as they did.

To explain their perspective, the Altmer (or many of them) have this perspective that their immortality/essence was robbed of them and they are trying to return to it. Part of that involves things like worshipping the Eight true Divines, and not Talos who was only a man and not worthy of deification. And as far as they are concerned, they view themselves as better than everyone else (many do, not saying all Altmer believe this).



i like how they censored [censored]!
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luke trodden
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:00 am

how they censored censored. Nice.
Unfortunately I make no idea of what's a "censored censored".

Can you explain what's that censoring thing? xD
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x a million...
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:04 am

I dislike the Thalmor too.

But I think you're supposed to.

OH! You mean you hate their inclusion in the lore? No, sorry. I don't agree.

They make a nice enemy. I'd love to see some DLC where you can kick those pansy ass Altmer back to Summerset Isle. And then have a repeat of Vvardenfell on their island.
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Mark
 
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