Bethesda : FIX the "Local Map" !

Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:30 am

Probably because it was a different game engine that was not truly 3D.

Spend some time in the GECK, it's not a simple task to say "this is a floor, this is a wall, this is a ceiling". ..............


Your best hope is that they improve the algorithm for generating the maps. Don't hold your breath.


Well, there is not actually an infinite number of interior floors; it would be possible to pre-generate (in game development stage) maps for individual floors that would be accessed by the Pipboy: loaded into Pipboy versus the auto generated maps for outdoors

Never will happen of course. I guess that's what you get when the game uses a FPS engine
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Lexy Corpsey
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:09 am

Well, there is not actually an infinite number of interior floors; it would be possible to pre-generate (in game development stage) maps for individual floors that would be accessed by the Pipboy: loaded into Pipboy versus the auto generated maps for outdoors

Never will happen of course. I guess that's what you get when the game uses a FPS engine


So the Pip-Boy would already know what the interior of every building and cave looked like? Not sure I'd buy into that idea personally.
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Harry Leon
 
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Post » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:36 pm

So the Pip-Boy would already know what the interior of every building and cave looked like? Not sure I'd buy into that idea personally.

It also knows where every quest item is too apparently.
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Sara Johanna Scenariste
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:30 am

I think the next Fallout would benefit greatly from "borrowing" Metroid Prime's map system for its interiors, easily the best map system in a game I've come across.
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neen
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:28 am

So the Pip-Boy would already know what the interior of every building and cave looked like? Not sure I'd buy into that idea personally.


Pipboy would load the applicable data as you go into each area, and you'd still need to explore to remove the "fog"
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Trey Johnson
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:19 am

The alternative would have been quadruple the cell requirement for interior cells. That, or removing the possibility for multi-level buildings without loading. Granted, yes, this game is certainly optimized for outdoor environments, the trade off here for true Z axis freedom is HUGE. When working with an engine, I would never - ever - ever, give up z access freedom for quadruple interior tile requirements or constant loading so you could have better interior maps.



Actually, I would rather have the interior mapping working good than complete Z freedom INSIDE BUILDINGS. There are very few spots in existing game where this is even an issue: the large, multistory factory type rooms, and the rooms with holes in the floor to drop to floor below, some "atrium" type areas, and going down a staircase. But many staircases are already a demarcation point of a new area/cell and you have a short (1 sec) load as you open a door at the top or bottom of stairs. The large multistory could be a problem;'ll have to think about that some more, but it would not be a big loss to lose those rooms. The "atrium" areas would be the biggest issue - they do add play value/realism, shooting down (or up) at enemies on the other floor.

A little thought in planning could likely solve the atrium problem: have the room be empty of "mappable obstructions" (i.e., anything that would show up on the map), then that cell could be add to the Pipboy "current layer only" map on both applicable floors and would show as a large empty area; by preference, always put a stairway in the atrium area for easy check out of door placement - which would be unclear from the Pipboy map ( which IS the existing problem anyway)

With smaller interior cells, there's no reason not to load the current cell as well as all adjacent interior cells from HDD - should be possible to use only current cell in processing while keeping adjacent cells almost instantly available in RAM. Keep track of which cells are already loaded,and keep loading newly adjacent cells in the background if possible (should be, since they'd be smaller)

4X number of cells yes,but very little more information contained, should be almost the same size in memory, simpler to develop and debug it would seem to me
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Chad Holloway
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:35 am

I guess most people are not interested in a good local map
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Hussnein Amin
 
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Post » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:25 pm

I find it hard to believe that none of the Gamebryo developers ever played Daggerfall. We are talking 1996 here.
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Jimmie Allen
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:50 am

What, exactly, is a CELL??
Pipboy obviously discriminates between indoor and outdoor cells already, so there is some flag there which tells it not to calculate/display the inappropriate cells, i.e., do not display adjacent outdoor areas when indoors, and vice versa


My guess is another name for that flag might be "wall." An item flagged as an outside wall could simply tell the interior mapper to stop.
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Kayla Oatney
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:01 am

Would it be that to get the pipboy to show a different map depending on the altitude of the character? Really?
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X(S.a.R.a.H)X
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:19 am

I guess most people are not interested in a good local map


It's just kind of bizarre to MAP, and then REFERENCE, a building you've walked into instead of just learning and keeping track of where you are. I mean when you go to the library are you scribbling on a paper so you can find your way out again? Use your visual perceptions and look at the pretty environments that have been crafted for you!
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sophie
 
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Post » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:01 pm

It's just kind of bizarre to MAP, and then REFERENCE, a building you've walked into instead of just learning and keeping track of where you are. I mean when you go to the library are you scribbling on a paper so you can find your way out again? Use your visual perceptions and look at the pretty environments that have been crafted for you!


I'm usually concentrating pretty hard on : 1) any live enemies , 2) looking for loot (bottlecaps are pretty small), 3) watching my health and ammo situation.

Plus, I may go up/down a staircase before completely exploring present level, and then could come back to that level at a different staircase or thru a hole in floor/ceiling. It is very easy to ge "lost', or not be sure which areas you have explored, or where interior doors are (the doors that do NOT show up on Pipboy as special icons
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..xX Vin Xx..
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:57 am

It's just kind of bizarre to MAP, and then REFERENCE, a building you've walked into instead of just learning and keeping track of where you are. I mean when you go to the library are you scribbling on a paper so you can find your way out again? Use your visual perceptions and look at the pretty environments that have been crafted for you!

Thing is, the real world doesn't use tilesets. F:NV does, in spades. Oh look, I'm in a trash filled hallway of a ruined building. Oh look, I'm on a Vault staircase. Now I remember where I am! Yeah, right.
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Fiori Pra
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:04 pm

Thing is, the real world doesn't use tilesets. F:NV does, in spades. Oh look, I'm in a trash filled hallway of a ruined building. Oh look, I'm on a Vault staircase. Now I remember where I am! Yeah, right.


LMAO! Perfect!

Yes, I do have to agree that I've got beef with the pretty poor indoors/local maps. There are many, MANY times where the map and area you are in, look NOTHING like a building, or even feels as if you're in the right area that the map is showing you. Particularly for buildings.Not very helpful. About the only time I really use the Local maps are when I'm in a town and i want a quick reference for what's where again when there's a lot of doors/buildings facing different directions.
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Alex Blacke
 
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Post » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:02 am

I've always felt that the FO3-style mapping was a cool compromise between the real-world technical limitations of the engine, and the flawed, imperfect in-game technology.
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Syaza Ramali
 
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