I noticed this yesterday when my brother was playing for the first time. He doesn't RP or anything, just uses tgm and kills/steals things. He went to Riverwood to the golden claw guy's shop and proceeded to take all his things. Guy and his sister attacks him, I tell him that supposedley if you kill all witnesses, you won't get a bounty. He kills the sister first, then turns to the shopkeep and finds very quickly that he has been made essential by the killing of his sister.

So yeah, he had to run from town with guards chasing him, because it took too long to kill them all even with tgm on .

Didn't say the game svcks you tard. This is THE ELDER SCROLLS. Maybe you just oblivion and don't know any better but TES is all about doing what you want. If I want to go on a rampage its just sad that half the people are on their knees instead of being corpses afterwards.

this isn't new vegas where you can kill everyone and have a world with nothing left in it, thats stupud and really breaks the game, this game is meant to be played indefinately and not a game world where you kill everything and have a totally empty world, this game is dynamic...so how they did it is fine, its actualy the right way.

Aye that argonian in solitude. I know his quest, I dont want to do it But I cant kill him before, what the [censored].

Radient story also svcks, I have unusal gems, Vex wont talk to me because im not in the guild, maul just tells me to piss off. I cant finish/start the propper quest. Seriously they need more than 2 people for that quest when they may not even talk to you.

Also I killed the guy selling dogs in a quest. But the other guy at the stables for no reason, wont sell me a dog.
Seriously some of these issues are [censored] stupid. Bugs are one thing, but this is just stupidity. "well his option died, instead of having a logcal alternative your [censored]. Dont worry we made sure toflag the unimportant npcs as essential."

Morrowind had no unkillables, this game doesn't need them either, they already had a work around with mortal-immortal followers, don't see why they couldn't have applied it to essentials as well. And in certain cases it's just plain stupid. Tullius tells us to hunt down stormcloak camps but you can't even kill their captains after the civil war was resolved nor can you execute the deposed Jarls and their servants in Windhelm :bonk:

Because she is invulnerable?

I personally don't mind this, the lag and unbalanced gameplay are much bigger problems

Is there any way of telling if an NPC is invulnerable?

I keep trying to silently murder people but when I go for the killing blow they just kneel down and obviously I can't kill the witness so I end up with a bounty. :sadvaultboy:

Liberal use of the essential tags is no fun. Do want MWs system back




I think you miss the substantial differences between these games that make such comparisons utterly invalid or merely ridiculous.



The series selling point is not, play forever, its play how you want

Could easily be done with some more health or resistance for fire and ice. I hate NPC essential. I would loved if they made all character killable, even if it screwed up quests. But even more if NPC's didn't matter. If an NPC is stupid enough to tag along on a dangerous mission, it should be dangerous. It won't feel like that if they are essential and go on killing everything for you.

Ahhhh ... the dumbing of the ElderScrolls.

Program and design by the Dumbmer.


:cool:

Probably an easy to make mod, just require some time to reconfigure all NPC's essential status.

The only difference is the role-playing apsect. Of you actually being whoever you want to be and do what ever you want to do. That doing what ever you want does not include destroying your game experience by letting you kill vital characters of major plots. A game is a game and bethesda can't allow you to kill vital characters for the same reason you can't kill sullivan in UC series.

Ah, the stinging rebuttal of witty repartee

I think IIRC in Morrowind, a warning box popped up which informed the player that the NPC he is fighting is essential to an undone quest and if he dies it could do irreparable damage to the questline. The choice would be the player's choice, not the game designer's choice. The player could then do a Hard Save to go back to this point if desired.


:cool:

I'm missing morrowind where you were able to kill Caius Cosades and Vivec and still be able to complete the main quest (also in a more challenging way xD).

So it'd be OK if, in the tutorial, you'd be able to kill the emperor and make your character stuck in the tutorial dungeon because hey, that's what the player obviously wanted?

It's better to protect the player from doing something that will make him unable to play the game further, than to have the option and make it possible for you to accidentally break your game without you even knowing it, don't you agree? You also have to note, morrowind is quite an old game and wasn't created with this "fail-safe mechanic" in mind.

I also saw the blacksmith fall in a dragon fight in riverwood. It has been weeks since he died, no one has replaced him. When I speak to his wife she lamets his death etc etc but no one has replaced him.

All in all, it would have been better if you could complete the game with no essential NPC's tho. You fail to save him anyways so that example is not the best one. As of Martin, i understand that he is essential but it would been better RP wise that no NPC's is essential and you just have to figure out a different way to beat the game than the original plan.

EDIT: I didn't read properly. I thought it was Oblivion, so nvm.

im pretty sure this is for the best. when they come out with DLC including these characters, i doubt beth wants to deal with thousands of imperials with bugged questlines cuz they killed ulfric.

if they let u kill off essential npc's, then most people probably will. and u really dont want to limit beth's DLC options. if they let u kill essential people, they'd have to make every DLC introduce new people for EVERY aspect or risk some people not having those npc's they need.

i understand your point, but the game is pretty complex as it is, and i can see how much work they put into it to make sure its dynamic and has the feeling of a viable world continualy, i would rather have a few of those type of problems then a world with nothing in it, you shouldn't be able to to go in a town and actually kill everyone and not have anything there the rest of the game, like in new vegas or even fallout 3 which wasn't as bad as new vegas, but i think they got it closer than all the other games so far, most everything respawns, there's lots of random stuff happening all over the place. towns, settlements and shops need to be populated the entire game.

No, in that case the key to the sewers should be on the emperors body.

Remember that back path in Morrowind?

In essence, there is only one person in that game that is absolutely essential to the main quest.
Yagrum.
And still you can kill him, and so you should.

"Live on in the doomed world you have created."

Yeah it is so silly, once i decided to have fun in Markath and i started to kill every one in a city...guess what?!
Literally half of the caracters were immortal lol :facepalm:
Morrowinds system was WAY BETTER.

Agreed. It bugs me a great deal. The most recent game I was coming from was FO: New Vegas (not Bethesda directly but the exact same engine as FO3 with some tweaks). You could kill almost everyone. It was refreshing. The game let you know when you killed someone important but if I want to shoot someone in the face (stab them in Skyrim) because I think they're a terrible awful person that should be my choice.

Bethesda talks a big game about choice but doesn't seem to bring a whole lot of it...

That said, it's a truly amazing game for what it is.

Yes it's very annoying and makes it harder to get immersed into the game. Something i especially hate is how people don't get knocked unconscious anymore, they just fall to the ground crippled to near death crawling around then get back up seconds later like nothing happened.