Wow, I thought I was the only one that remembers that game. Star Control 2 was an amazing game. I wish they'd make a Star Control 4...I miss it...it is *frumple*.


The Van Graffs are part of Freeside...I don't consider them a "settlement." Freeside alone has more to do than most of the settlements in FO3 put together, so I'm just not buying your comparison, sorry. Aside from quests, though, how about back-story, world views, interactions with other factions/settlements, etc.? These are all things that the settlements in FO3 were missing for the most part (and those that weren't only had sparse traces of these things), and IMO it made them seem two-dimensional compared to those in NV.


I totally agree. For me as a player I enjoy the depth more than the hours of exploration (part of that is probably that don't really have as much time for that kind of stuff as I used to), so NV is a much more enjoyable game for me. The exploration in FO3 was fun, but I got to a point that I felt like spending my limited gaming time elsewhere...I don't play games to "kill time" anymore like I did when I was younger. I need to be fully engaged or it's not worth my time. At a certain point finding new shacks with a note, some corpses, and some Fancy Lad Snack Cakes wasn't doing it for me anymore.


Interesting. I couldn't make it halfway through a second play-through of FO3 because it was almost exactly the same as my first despite all of my efforts to make it different. I hope I don't have that problem with NV...so far I don't think I will, but who knows?


I'm actually finding Caesar's Legion more interesting than the Enclave in FO3. I didn't really feel like I knew who the Enclave were in FO3...they didn't go into enough real details about their history and motivations. Luckily I played Fallout 2 several times, so I knew enough about them to sort of fill in the gaps. The way they were presented didn't really grab me, though. Caesar's Legion may not seem as evil (and I'm not sure they should, TBH...Fallout isn't about "good" and "evil" necessarily), but I feel like I have a better understanding of who they are and where they come from than the East-coast Enclave. The Enclave in FO3 were really just some dudes in power armor that shot at me on sight for some reason and took over the water purifier that I was railroaded into caring about. I was sort of forced to make friends with the huggable East coast Brotherhood and they were opposed to the Enclave, but I'm not sure I was given a clear reason why outside of general distrust. TBH it sort of felt like your typical "good vs. evil" thing even though I think it was trying not to be. :shrug: Despite better graphics and full voice acting Eden was the only convincing aspect of the Enclave in FO3...outside of him I was a lot more convinced by the Enclave in Fallout 2.

Again, I'm making it sound like I didn't enjoy FO3. I did. It just wasn't the Fallout game I had been waiting for in the same way that NV is.

I think it's interesting to see the 50/50 divide between which game is preferred, same as with FO1 and 2. I'm sure we can all agree that the Fallout universe is one of the most compelling environments there's ever been in a game and yeah there's a lot of things that NV does better than 3 but until the next gen of Fallout (unless another title is squeezed out of the current 'series') DC is where I'll be hanging out, for two reasons. I liked the people in DC and actually gave a toss about what my character did and how they shaped the environment. In NV there just seemed to be too many disparate elements that were out for themselves, and dare I say it, all a bit 'emo'.

The other thing was that the fourth wall* was just broken so often, not just in terms of crashes or bugs, but location… stretch of desert, location… stretch of desert, cave. I didn't feel that it was a representation of a real place, it felt like video game space. The DC wasteland just somehow felt more natural, possible and immersive.

* to clarify - breaking the fourth wall is a term used in theatre / filmmaking when the viewer is taken out of the viewing experience and becomes a participant.

How can your character shape the environment or establish an identity in FO3 in a way that's more pronounced than it is in NV?


Most of the factions in FO3 were barely aware of each other if at all. How could they be out for anybody but themselves outside of the huggable token do-gooders (BoS)? In what ways did they express their motivations at all? From where I'm sitting most of them didn't have any discernible motivations outside of some immediate quest-related need.


I don't understand how this is possible. The places and people in FO3 had little to no back-story or even justifications for their existence, IMO. Much, much less of the people or places in FO3 felt even remotely plausible to me than those in NV for a lot of reasons. I'm not telling you you're wrong...I'm just really curious how someone could feel this way. I feel exactly the opposite pretty strongly.

I have to agree with Boradam also, when I re-loaded my PS3 Slim for FO3 trophies I had to do them all again and I wished to do so very fast. I can't remember my save time but it was around 20 hours, that included the odd trophy like Behemoths.

Softnerd, your second point I debate on the fact that the two large factions NCR and Caesar were very aware of each other. Caesar even sent raiding parties to Helios at one time; as well as there being a slave camp even further West. I think you are meaning the likes of BoS; Boomers who at large wanted to deliberately stay away from the others. I can see both of your valid points and I agree that at times I did find it all a bit too; Side with NCR or side with Caesar (ironically this is why I love Mr House); and why I enjoyed BoS/Boomers the most because they were much more lore-worthy and interesting.

Reno

By the way, the problem with FO3's storyline is just that it is so black and white. ENCLAVE IS EVAL. BOS ARE THE KNIGHTS IN SHINING ARMOR. The deeply contrasting moral shades completely throw you out of the story and your decision making is almost effortless.

Uh......what Aerospace park? :rofl:

I got that quest from Megaton. The sister of the young man who kills his family lives in Megaton. Give the Lone Wanderer a letter to deliver to him in Arefu.



I'll have to agree about The Thorn. For me it really lacks atmosphere after fighting in "The Hole" at The Pitt.

The Thorn is one of the very few things that came up short for me in NV.

I think you mis-read my post or I wasn't being clear enough. I was saying that the factions in NV are more believable because they have back-story, their own world views, interconnections with other people and factions, etc. I think you're agreeing with me.

I think NV biggest Drawback is they held back too much, only half implementing back some of the Fallout Mechanics leaving them broken, alongside the "oblivion" system leftovers from FO3.

Have to agree with this.

Softnerd,

Love your posts by the way, if I'm not agreeing with them, I'm learning something.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out a personal experience with FO3 and the Enclave. In my playthrough, they really were an ominous presence. This happened by accident. I spent hours listening to Enclave Radio while roaming the wastes (because I love Malcome Mcdowell). President John Henry Eden, by far the most interesting and charismatic character in the game (again thanks to the superb voice acting of the aforementioned Mr Mcdowell), kind of instilled a sense of dread in me before I ever laid eyes on the Enclave.

However, I submit that this is a fluke and were it not for me listening to those radio brodcasts, the Enclave would have been nothing more than dorks in Star Wars gear to me.

No argument here. Eden was a fantastic character, both in concept and execution. I just wish they'd followed that up with some more compelling information/interactions to let me know what they were about and why I should dislike them since I didn't really have a choice if I wanted to follow the main quest. Heck, even if I had a better understanding of what the East coast BoS were about it might have helped me have a sense of direction. As it was the BoS were a sort of ambivalent group of people without a plan. They just seemed to sort of hang out and "fight injustice," but didn't have an endgame in mind. Noble, but not sustainable or realistic. All I could gather was that they didn't like the Enclave because they had designs on the water purifier. If I hadn't played Fallout 2 and learned what they were about and their history I would have been confused.


Yeah, the radio broadcasts were indeed creepy in a great way. Lol @ "dorks in Star Wars gear."

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Aerotech_Office_Park :tops:

:laugh:

I thought it was extremely idiotic how you can convince him to wipe out of the Enclave with a simple speech check.

its not a distinction of who is more evil.......its who is more dangerous to the player. personally i liked the enclave but obviously in the game you have to play against them. with the proper mods to give them repaired armor (not the almost broken armor that bethesda gave them) :facepalm: and weapons they were a significant threat and took alot of firepower to kill as they should. they had deathclaws plasma weapons, vertibirds and all sorts of goodies. ceazers legion i just a bunch of slavers dressed up on random gear patched together. they were basically just a more organized version of the raiders and fiends you use as shooting practice. i coudnt finish fallout 2 but i did some background info on them before getting fallout 3 and they are way more interesting than caezars legion. the only reason that the legion was a threat is because the NCR is probably the most inefficient military force in existence. the rangers seem to be the only effective part of that entire organization and they are a tiny minority of it.

Exactly, here, the quest for Vault 22 for example, or Bleed me Dry, or countless other quests that are pretty mundane and rediculous or.... No, Not Much.

Pointless quests that are tedious with no reason to be...

But in fallout 3, you didn't have so MANY quests, but quality quests like Stealing Independence... don't tell me you didn't love the idea behind that, or, Oasis, just the concept behind that place and you could get some sixy camo lol xD. But really, Fallout 3 didn't have the quantity, but it did have quality. Look at the simulation quest, where you go to find Braun and he turns out to be a little girl killing everyone, that's amazing. Or the guy near Arlington that blows up a bunch of cars if you get too close. Or other quests... there were only 40 or so with DLC's but the quests they DID have were all quality quests well thought out and with interesting little quirks and things along the way to even add more amazing-ness to them.

This is another example to the OP, don't listen to the wiki and save before you help a faction, just play through once, then play through and help a different faction after that for the next playthrough and so and and so forth. There's your replayability. Even though most NV quests I did PURELY for Exp or Caps, NEVER because they were interesting.... very few intrigued me but when I was playing fallout 3 I LOVED the quests because I just love how bethesda writes the quests they do.


THIS DOES NOT MEAN HOWEVER that obsidian is worse in this respect, simply that I prefer bethesda's "nook and cranies are filled with goodies" technique better than obsidian's way. But some quests in NV are interesting, but most have you as the errand boy or girl scurrying along. I did like "I Put A Spell On You" though... that one was really cool because you were timed sort of and the espionage involved. Three Card Bounty had a nice, emotional touch to it with Betsy and 10 of Spades... but most were pretty bland but that's what you get QUALITY or QUANTITY.

I myself will do either, I mean, hearing all the B.S. about how this game svcks made me think it svcked for a while but after going back and re anolyzing my previous conclusions, you know what, this game isn't half bad, not the best, but hey, I couldn't do better so I'd say if you play through like a power gamer, yeah you aren't going to get much out of a second playthrough, that's why you have to play it like an RPG.

Slow, steady movements thorugh a playthrough and then after a while, move along to a new save and new charcter.

hmmm i feel that way in some places but in others i feel opposite, like in the casinos once you get done with the missions, people look at you and accept you, and you can kinda make a room for your self, mainly cause you get the same room. but i think i love the companions as family, like Boone, you get to know his life and help him threw his difficulties and become close friends with him, this is like a few other companions, and i do agree that there should be more missions for certain people, but then again this is a big game! so they cant make everything for everyone all different, so i can come to an agreement {lol natural karma}

Errrrmmmm sorry to bust your bubble but obsidian did the exact same thing...

Hello? Speech 100 checks to get the legion and NCR to be like "oh, sorry man, sorry to interrupt you, yeah, it was pretty dumb to do this, bye now!!!! Have fun crushing us into oblivion!!!"

Does such a thing even exist? Something completely broken, unexplained, rewardless, without any sense and unable to be completed comes to mind.

I believe so... Just think, with my new melee character, I have plenty of weapons, all the implants i need, (by plenty I mean like 50K) tons of stims/ doctor's bags/ radx/radaway, plenty of weapon repair kits so I don't need caps, and EXP is simple enough to get without quests... and since I don't get entertained by being an errand boy for 95pct of the quests in NV, no, there's no point for me to do them.

In fallout 3 however, I liked how they were scripted and constructed, so I did them regardless of any material value to be gained from them. It's that little extra something in them, I can't explain it, some people just can't understand it that makes a quest worthwhile, NV just doesn't do that for me.

Again, this is my opinion, and certainly both games offer something to be had from them, the quests for NV just aren't one of them for me, the weapons/builds/ personalities are, the world and quests? no, i'll leave that to FO3 to satisfy that

I'm not trying to dispute your opinions or likings. Just saying that there is no such thing as a pointless quest (in New Vegas) as in the late game many earlier, and smaller, quests tend to not offer big enough rewards to appeal to player who already has everything he needs - but that's only a cause of the given point in the game, and in my opinion this goes with both games, scripted events or not. :shrug:

Personally, I found Fallout 3 quests done after the first run (barring a select few) - as much as some of the the ones in New Vegas, except for those that do contribute to the ending in one way or another and have more than one way to solve them (which is quite many).

Well, let's raise up our glasses and drink to finding something worthwhile eh? For you, quests, for me, unique shiny things to keep me occupied .

Lets do that.