CTDs: Stranger Conjurer & Waterfront : IV

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:54 am

So I finally got around to installing a bunch of the major overhuals everyone is wild about and two odd glitches have popped up. The first I imagine has something to do with the leveled lists wacking out but I haven't narrowed it down, the second one is definitely FCOM related, disabled everything but the FCOM mods and still getting the CTD

1. Regularly, whenever I fast travel or wait, a Conjurer spawns who summons a scamp and becomes hostile with me. As soon as I kill him, the game crashes. Instead of solving this, I opened up the console and disabled him. That's stopped the CTDs but I'm sure there is some terrible underlying issue I should probably work out.

2. Consistently, whenever I go near the Waterfront District, the game crashes. It will happen in my game so long as the FCOM mods (OOO/Frans/MMM/uFCOM) are enabled. If they are disabled, the game will happily let me run all over the Waterfront with no issues.

Here is my load order, sorted with BOSS:

Spoiler

Oblivion.esm
All Natural Base.esm
Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm
Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm
Mart's Monster Mod.esm
FCOM_Convergence.esm
Better Cities Resources.esm
John's Leveled List Overhaul.esm
Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
DLCShiveringIsles.esp
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp
Better Cities .esp
Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp
Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp
Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp
Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp
FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp
Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp
All Natural.esp
All Natural - SI.esp
Immersive Interiors.esp
Immersive Interiors - Lights Addon.esp
Enhanced Water v2.0 HD.esp
All Natural - Real Lights.esp
WindowLightingSystem.esp
RAEVWD Cities.esp
RAEVWD Imperial City.esp
Streamline 3.0.esp
Dynamic Map.esp
DLCHorseArmor.esp
DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - HorseArmor.esp
DLCOrrery.esp
DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp
DLCVileLair.esp
DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.esp
DLCSpellTomes.esp
EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer.esp
DLCThievesDen.esp
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - ThievesDen.esp
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp
OMOBS.esp
OMOBS_SI.esp
OMOBS Optional Combat Settings.esp
John's Leveled List Overhaul.esp
FCOM_Convergence.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp
Fransfemale.esp
EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4FCOM.esp
Enhanced Quest Roleplaying.esp
BrotherhoodRenewed.esp
M.O.E. - Tools of Kagrenac - The Secret of White Gold Tower.esp
FrbitTravel.esp
DLCBattlehornCastle.esp
DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - Battlehorn.esp
DLCFrostcrag.esp
DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp
SM Plugin Refurbish - FrostCrag.esp
Knights.esp
Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp
EVE_KnightsoftheNine.esp
M.O.E. - Main Quest Delayer.esp
Mighty Umbra.esp
ElsweyrAnequina.esp
xuldarkforest.esp
xulStendarrValley.esp
xulTheHeath.esp
XulEntiusGorge.esp
xulFallenleafEverglade.esp
xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp
xulChorrolHinterland.esp
xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp
xulBravilBarrowfields.esp
xulLushWoodlands.esp
xulAncientYews.esp
xulAncientRedwoods.esp
xulCloudtopMountains.esp
xulArriusCreek.esp
xulPatch_AY_AC.esp
xulRollingHills_EV.esp
xulPantherRiver.esp
xulRiverEthe.esp
xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp
xulImperialIsle.esp
xulBlackwoodForest.esp
xulCheydinhalFalls.esp
xulAspenWood.esp
xulSkingradOutskirts.esp
xulSnowdale.esp
OOO-Snowdale Patch.esp
xulCliffsOfAnvil.esp
Natural_Vegetation_by_Max_Tael.esp
ANBBobbingMotion.esp
EVE_ShiveringIslesEasterEggs.esp
M.O.E. - Lycanthropy and Lichcraft.esp
M.O.E. - Vampire Clan Raelu.esp
M.O.E. - Levitation Magic.esp
M.O.E. - Teleportation Magic and Icarian Flight.esp
RenGuardOverhaul.esp
CombatMod.esp
Oblivion XP.esp
_Ren_BeautyPack_onlyhairs.esp
Jjiinx_MorrowindStyleArgonians.esp
Better Looking Wood Elves Vanilla Black Eyes.esp
Better Cities Full.esp
Better Cities - VWD of the IC.esp
Better Imperial City.esp
Better Cities Full FPS Patch.esp
Better Cities - Unique Landscape Barrowfields.esp
Better Cities - Unique Landscape Chorrol Hinterland.esp
Better Cities - Unique Landscape Cheydinhal Falls.esp
Better Cities - Unique Landscape Skingrad Outskirts.esp
Better Imperial City FPS Patch.esp
Better Cities - Unique Landscape Imperial Isle.esp
Francesco's 10 days respawn time - 1-20 day lenght rescale.esp
SMTXKhajiitPawsAsAbility_v04RMHGEC.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp
MERGED INTO BASHED PATCH:
.TNR - The Imperials
.TNR - The Bretons
.TNR - The Altmer
.TNR - The Nords
.TNR - The Orcs
.TNR - Shivering Isles
+FCOM_Francescos.esp
+FCOM_FrancescosItemAddOn.esp
+Enhanced Water v2.0 HD - SI Addon.esp
+VA_BetterGold.esp
+SM Plugin Refurbish - VileLair.esp
+DLCSpellTomes - Unoffocial Patch.esp
+MailBodyReplacerV4.esp
+FineWeapons.esp
+RustyItems.esp
+John's Leveled List for OOO.esp
+Mart's Monster Mod - More Passive Wildlife.esp
+FCOM_SaferRoads.esp
+Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures
+Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp
+SM Plugin Refurbished - Knights.esp
+FCOM_Knights
+FCOM_SlofsHorses
+M.O.E. - Kill Martin and Jauffre.esp
+MW Style Dremora
+EVE_KhajiitFix.esp
+Slof's Oblivion Better Beasts.esp
+Better Looking Dark Elves.esp
+Better Looking Redguards-Mergeable.esp

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:21 am

First, post your load order via Wrye Bash instead: rightclick file-header > list mods > paste into post. It gives version numbers as well which is very useful. Your should skip OMOBS Optional Combat Settings.esp, for example, as you already have those with FCOM, but I'll wait with comments on the load order as it seems a bit pointless commenting on one w/o version numbers.

]1. Regularly, whenever I fast travel or wait, a Conjurer spawns who summons a scamp and becomes hostile with me. As soon as I kill him, the game crashes. Instead of solving this, I opened up the console and disabled him. That's stopped the CTDs but I'm sure there is some terrible underlying issue I should probably work out.

That would probably be the Conjurer from Spell Tomes. Not sure why it would cause a CTD.

2. Consistently, whenever I go near the Waterfront District, the game crashes. It will happen in my game so long as the FCOM mods (OOO/Frans/MMM/uFCOM) are enabled. If they are disabled, the game will happily let me run all over the Waterfront with no issues.

I thought you might run MMM Diverse WaterLife as it has issues - which are fixed in the latest update - but you're not. FCOM shouldn't touch Waterfront much otherwise, but make sure you have the resources installed and getting loaded for everything (i.e. BSA's renamed correctly etc.).

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:09 am

Here is my load order from Bash. Also merged a bunch of things into my bashed patch since I last posted, as when I was looking for the list order function, I stumbled upon the mod checker and it mentioned some things I had active that were marked nomerge/should be merged then unchecked...

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:
? 00 Oblivion.esm

? 01 All Natural Base.esm [Version 1.2]

? 02 Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm [Version 4.5bSI]

? 03 Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm [Version 4.5bSI]

? 04 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm [Version 1.34]

? 05 Mart's Monster Mod.esm [Version 3.7b3p3]

? 06 FCOM_Convergence.esm [Version 0.9.9MB3]

? 07 Better Cities Resources.esm [Version 4.9.0]

? 08 John's Leveled List Overhaul.esm

? ? ? TNR - THE IMPERIALS.esp

? ? ? TNR - THE BRETONS.esp

? ? ? TNR - THE ALTMER.esp

? ? ? TNR - THE NORDS.esp

? ? ? TNR - THE ORCS.esp

? ? ? TNR - ShiveringIsles.esp

? 09 Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.3.4]

? 0A DLCShiveringIsles.esp

? 0B Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp [Version 1.4.1]

? 0C SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp [Version 1.30]

? 0D Better Cities .esp [Version 4.7.0]

? 0E Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp

? 0F Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp

? 10 Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp

? 11 Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp

? ++ FCOM_Francescos.esp [Version 0.9.9]

? ++ FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp [Version 0.9.9]

? 12 FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp [Version 0.9.9]

? 13 Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp

? 14 All Natural.esp [Version 1.2]

? 15 All Natural - SI.esp [Version 1.2]

? 16 Immersive Interiors.esp [Version 0.7]

? 17 Immersive Interiors - Lights Addon.esp [Version 0.7]

? 18 Enhanced Water v2.0 HD.esp

? ++ Enhanced Water v2.0 HD - SI Addon.esp [Version 0.2]

? 19 All Natural - Real Lights.esp [Version 1.2]

? 1A WindowLightingSystem.esp

? 1B RAEVWD Cities.esp [Version 1.9]

? 1C RAEVWD Imperial City.esp [Version 1.9]

? ++ VA_BetterGold.esp

? 1D Streamline 3.0.esp

? 1E Dynamic Map.esp [Version 2.0]

? 1F DLCHorseArmor.esp

? 20 DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.6]

? 21 SM Plugin Refurbish - HorseArmor.esp [Version 1.11]

? 22 DLCOrrery.esp

? 23 DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]

? 24 SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp [Version 1.11]

? 25 DLCVileLair.esp

? 26 DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.6]

? ++ SM Plugin Refurbish - VileLair.esp [Version 1.21]

? 27 DLCMehrunesRazor.esp

? 28 DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]

? 29 SM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.esp [Version 1.30]

? 2A DLCSpellTomes.esp

? ++ DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1]

? ++ MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp

? ? ? EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer.esp

? ++ FineWeapons.esp

? ++ RustyItems.esp

? 2B DLCThievesDen.esp

? 2C DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.8]

? 2D DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp [Version 1.0.4]

? 2E SM Plugin Refurbish - ThievesDen.esp [Version 1.30]

? 2F Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp [Version 1.34]

? ? ? OMOBS.esp [Version 1.0]

? ? ? OMOBS_SI.esp [Version 1.0]

? 30 OMOBS Optional Combat Settings.esp [Version 1.0]

? ? ? John's Leveled List Overhaul.esp

? ++ John's Leveled List Overhaul for OOO.esp

? 31 FCOM_Convergence.esp [Version 0.9.9Mb3]

? ++ Mart's Monster Mod - More Passive Wildlife.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? ++ FCOM_SaferRoads.esp [Version 0.9.9]

? ++ Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? 32 Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? ++ Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]

? ? ? Fransfemale.esp

? ? ? EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4FCOM.esp

? 33 Enhanced Quest Roleplaying.esp [Version 2.03]

? 34 BrotherhoodRenewed.esp [Version 1.0.11]

? 35 M.O.E. - Tools of Kagrenac - The Secret of White Gold Tower.esp [Version 6]

? 36 FrbitTravel.esp

? 37 DLCBattlehornCastle.esp

? 38 DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]

? 39 SM Plugin Refurbish - Battlehorn.esp [Version 1.30]

? 3A DLCFrostcrag.esp

? 3B DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]

? 3C SM Plugin Refurbish - FrostCrag.esp [Version 1.2]

? 3D Knights.esp

? 3E Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.1]

? ? ? EVE_KnightsoftheNine.esp

? ++ SM Plugin Refurbish - Knights.esp [Version 1.06]

? 3F M.O.E. - Main Quest Delayer.esp [Version 3]

? 40 Mighty Umbra.esp

? ++ FCOM_Knights.esp [Version 0.9.9Mb3]

? ++ FCOM_SlofsHorses.esp

? 41 ElsweyrAnequina.esp

? 42 xuldarkforest.esp [Version 1.0.5]

? 43 xulStendarrValley.esp [Version 1.2.2]

? 44 xulTheHeath.esp

? 45 XulEntiusGorge.esp

? 46 xulFallenleafEverglade.esp [Version 1.3.1]

? 47 xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp [Version 1.2.1]

? 48 xulChorrolHinterland.esp [Version 1.2.2]

? 49 xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp [Version 1.6.4]

? 4A xulBravilBarrowfields.esp [Version 1.3.2]

? 4B xulLushWoodlands.esp [Version 1.3.1]

? 4C xulAncientYews.esp [Version 1.4.3]

? 4D xulAncientRedwoods.esp [Version 1.6]

? 4E xulCloudtopMountains.esp [Version 1.0.3]

? 4F xulArriusCreek.esp [Version 1.1.3]

? 50 xulPatch_AY_AC.esp [Version 1.1]

? 51 xulRollingHills_EV.esp [Version 1.3.3]

? 52 xulPantherRiver.esp

? 53 xulRiverEthe.esp [Version 1.0.2]

? 54 xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp [Version 1.1]

? 55 xulImperialIsle.esp [Version 1.6.6]

? 56 xulBlackwoodForest.esp [Version 1.1.0]

? 57 xulCheydinhalFalls.esp [Version 1.0.1]

? 58 xulAspenWood.esp [Version 1.0.2]

? 59 xulSkingradOutskirts.esp [Version 1.0.1]

? 5A xulSnowdale.esp [Version 1.0.2]

? 5B OOO-Snowdale Patch.esp

? 5C xulCliffsOfAnvil.esp

? 5D Natural_Vegetation_by_Max_Tael.esp

? 5E ANBBobbingMotion.esp

? 5F EVE_ShiveringIslesEasterEggs.esp

? 60 M.O.E. - Lycanthropy and Lichcraft.esp [Version 7]

? ++ M.O.E. - Kill Martin and Jauffre.esp [Version 1]

? 61 M.O.E. - Vampire Clan Raelu.esp [Version 6]

? 62 M.O.E. - Levitation Magic.esp [Version 1]

? 63 M.O.E. - Teleportation Magic and Icarian Flight.esp [Version 2]

? 64 RenGuardOverhaul.esp

? 65 CombatMod.esp

? 66 Oblivion XP.esp

? 67 _Ren_BeautyPack_onlyhairs.esp

? ++ MW Style Dremora.esp

? ++ EVE_KhajiitFix.esp

? ++ Slof's Oblivion Better Beasts.esp

? ? ? Jjiinx_MorrowindStyleArgonians.esp

? ++ Better Looking Dark Elves.esp

? ++ Better Looking Redguards-Mergeable.esp

? 68 Better Looking Wood Elves Vanilla Black Eyes.esp

? 69 Better Cities Full.esp [Version 4.9.0]

? 6A Better Cities - VWD of the IC.esp [Version 4.7.0]

? 6B Better Imperial City.esp [Version 4.9.0]

? 6C Better Cities Full FPS Patch.esp [Version 4.9.0]

? 6D Better Cities - Unique Landscape Barrowfields.esp [Version 4.7.0]

? 6E Better Cities - Unique Landscape Chorrol Hinterland.esp [Version 4.8.4]

? 6F Better Cities - Unique Landscape Cheydinhal Falls.esp [Version 4.8.1]

? 70 Better Cities - Unique Landscape Skingrad Outskirts.esp [Version 4.8.1]

? 71 Better Imperial City FPS Patch.esp [Version 4.8.1]

? 72 Better Cities - Unique Landscape Imperial Isle.esp [Version 4.8.1]

? 73 Francesco's 10 days respawn time - 1-20 day lenght rescale.esp

? 74 Bashed Patch, 0.esp

? 75 SMTXKhajiitPawsAsAbility_v04RMHGEC.esp

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:14 am

Here is my load order from Bash. Also merged a bunch of things into my bashed patch since I last posted, as when I was looking for the list order function, I stumbled upon the mod checker and it mentioned some things I had active that were marked nomerge/should be merged then unchecked...

Your FCOM load order looks rather solid, so if having issues with any of those it's probably caused by resources missing (wrongly renamed bsa etc.) rather. Some notes, none of which should be causing your current issues:

? ? ? EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer.esp - Don't use with FCOM. Install the resources for stock, MMM and OOO but only use the FCOM plugin.

? 30 OMOBS Optional Combat Settings.esp [Version 1.0] - Skip. You already have those settings with FCOM.

? ++ Mart's Monster Mod - More Passive Wildlife.esp [Version 3.7b3p3] - Don't use. Doesn't work properly with UFCOM.

In short, not sure why FCOM mods would cause your issues in Waterfront - if it's not connected to missing resources.

BTW, that load order wasn't retrieved via right-clicking file-header etc. It's annoying with line breaks IMO as it takes twice as long to go through it.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:50 am

I have already renamed MMM.bsa to FCOM_Convergence_Mart's Monster Mod.bsa. That is, as far as I know, the only bsa that needs to be renamed.

Sorry about not using the right load order retrieval bit, I can see where that would be annoying.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:18 pm

I have already renamed MMM.bsa to FCOM_Convergence_Mart's Monster Mod.bsa. That is, as far as I know, the only bsa that needs to be renamed.

Sorry about not using the right load order retrieval bit, I can see where that would be annoying.

Yeah, but I mean make sure you have OOO 1.33 Complete + 1.34 Beta 5 correctly installed, that the Fran's bsa get loaded etc. Basically that the major mods are correctly installed. That was what I meant with etc.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:28 am

Somehow I managed to not install the OOO beta 5 patch though I could have sworn...

How do I tell if Fran's BSA is getting loaded? It at least appears to me that they are in the archive list in the .ini.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:38 am

Somehow I managed to not install the OOO beta 5 patch though I could have sworn...

How do I tell if Fran's BSA is getting loaded? It at least appears to me that they are in the archive list in the .ini.

That should do it, but even easier to just rename it FCOM_Convergence_FransNewItems.bsa (or whatever it is named - not using Fran's myself). Also, which variant of OOO 1.33 Complete did you install? If on Vista, the exe version is problematic and should be avoided.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:33 am

I'm on windows 7 and I used the installer though I am well aware it can be problematic. It seemed to work fine, and I was only doing a basic "Full" installation; I have UAC disabled and I marked the installer to run as an administrator, etc etc. It did occur to me though, just before you made your post, that this might have something to do with missing resources from that, so I'll have to see what the patch does and then reinstalling OOO is my next course of action.

Can I get away with simply installing the OMOD version over my current OOO or do the other FCOM parts need to be reinstalled as well - should re-installation be necessary.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:21 am

OOO beta 5 patch seems to have resolved the CTDs. Thanks a lot for helping me out, Arkngt, I probably wouldn't have thought to install the patch without you.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:18 pm

I'm on windows 7 and I used the installer though I am well aware it can be problematic. It seemed to work fine, and I was only doing a basic "Full" installation; I have UAC disabled and I marked the installer to run as an administrator, etc etc. It did occur to me though, just before you made your post, that this might have something to do with missing resources from that, so I'll have to see what the patch does and then reinstalling OOO is my next course of action.

Can I get away with simply installing the OMOD version over my current OOO or do the other FCOM parts need to be reinstalled as well - should re-installation be necessary.

I think you can just install the OMOD version over your current one w/o issues. Might be a perfect time to try out Wrye Bash's installer if you haven't already as you can install the resources directly from the OOO_133_Complete.7z archive (you'd have to make a BAIN-friendly package of it in order to get the optional stuff - but not for the main files/resources). But making an OMOD and installing via OBMM works just as well of course.

EDIT: Perhaps it would be easiest to load a game with just OOO and see if you still get CTDs in Waterfront. If not, OOO is OK and it should be something else.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:08 pm

Better Cities adds an intensive waterfront area - I suggest using the FPS patches, and also using OSR (with heap replacement on). That solves my waterfront crashing issues.

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:04 pm

Better Cities adds an intensive waterfront area - I suggest using the FPS patches, and also using OSR (with heap replacement on). That solves my waterfront crashing issues.

Good advice, but the OP says that he "disabled everything but the FCOM mods and still getting the CTD". Which is odd as FCOM doesn't touch Waterfront much (besides Guard armor etc.).

» Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:06 am

Hmm, I wonder if your two CTD's are not actually separate issues? The reason I would think so is because there are actually two separate places in the waterfront district I commonly see the conjurers pop up, and as often as not in my own FCOM game they end up either suiciding by guard before I ever find them, or occasionally killing an NPC, usually near the entrance to the IC.